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Craw-Daddy
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Though their have been threads on this subject, I would like for a more specific, realistic and evidental thread on this matter. Please give detailed EVIDENCE on whether you think who goes where or if you would change it a little. And no, not one on one fights with other primarchs. And we are also assuming that since the primarchs are created from the warp, that they are immune to Magnus' pychic abilities.

Top Five best Primarchs in Close Quarters:

1. Horus
2. Sanguinus/Angron
3. Sanguinus/Angron
4. Corax
5. ????

My reasoning for Horus being the greatest is that it is stated that Horus was the greatest warrior second to none.

2 and 3 place are difficult however.

A lot of people say Sanguinus as in collected visions a daemon tells him that he would be Khornes Greatest Champion. However, should we really take that as the only information? Did the daemon really not have a reason to lie? Of course he did. He would have had two primarchs and two legions serving the blood god. Why the hell not? Then comes Horus' statement that Sanguinus should have been the Warmaster. But does the Warmaster really constitute being the best one in single hand combat with other primarchs?

Then comes his tie Angron. Angron has known nothing in his youth years except for one on one combat on the gladiator arenas. Raven's Flight might be a testament to the top dueling primarchs.

"There was not another primarch that could best him in single combat except Horus and maybe Sanguinus. Corax was an immortal lord of battle but Angron was war incarnate." Chapter 11 Raven's Flight (1:50)

Basically Corax saying that between him and Sanguinus he wasn't sure but with Angron he was definitley sure that his life would end. This also gives Horus some points as Corax realises Horus' abilities

4 place Corax... only evidence is Raven's Flight. However, I've yet to hear a claim to any other primarch talking about beating and being beat up by another primarch.

5 place is left to any evidence about any other primarchs information I never heard about. Or if I'm missing something. I personally go with Fulgrim. As I assume being a perfectionist means he is a perfect swordsmen like Lucius who was essentially made to look like no one knew his equal with his swordsmenship in "Fulgrim" novel. He also has a good primarch kill tally. However no hard evidence like the others.

Personally,

1 Horus
2 Angron
3 Sanguinus
4 Corax
5 Fulgrim
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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IF you want my reasons read the other primarch pole, I just don't have the will to say it all over again but here is my list.
1) Russ
2) tweety
3) Horus
4) Angron
5) I have no idea.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Something to that effect. A few other reasons but yeah. lol
 

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Dazed and confused.
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However, I've yet to hear a claim to any other primarch talking about beating and being beat up by another primarch.
In the audio story The Dark King it mentions the fact that Night Haunter left Dorn for dead using just his hands and teeth. This would have to propel him to near the top of the list.

There's also the much debated punch up between Russ and the Lion.
 

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Sanguinus?
Hardly a "great" primarch, considering he got pulverized by Horus in no time at all and barely scratched him.
And due to his failure, all of his followers have turned to Khorne, the blood god of chaos.

Sounds like epicfailz as a primarch.
 

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I'm not sure how much we can read into the dorn/night haunter incident, seeing as he could've jumped at dorn suddenly in a rage, taking him unawares.
 

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Dazed and confused.
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I'm not sure how much we can read into the dorn/night haunter incident, seeing as he could've jumped at dorn suddenly in a rage, taking him unawares.
A being like a primarch shouldn't be able to be caught unawares, even by another Primarch. And he did breach Dorn's master crafted armour with nothing but finger nails and a bad temper. Also, he seems to have an active psychic power in the form of a telekinetic blast he can unleash, as oppossed to some of the other primarchs' more passive powers like foresight or invisibility. He used it to destroy a chamber he was in in the The Dark King
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Russ could take him down. Lol idk
 

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A being like a primarch shouldn't be able to be caught unawares, even by another Primarch. And he did breach Dorn's master crafted armour with nothing but finger nails and a bad temper. Also, he seems to have an active psychic power in the form of a telekinetic blast he can unleash, as oppossed to some of the other primarchs' more passive powers like foresight or invisibility. He used it to destroy a chamber he was in in the The Dark King
I'm not sure about the whole Primarch's shouldn't be caught unawares thing. If that was true none of them would ever be caught on the hop. Also Dorn was probably thinking that there was no way Kurze would attack him. They were brothers remember? and they had this whole "No Primarch would try and kill another" mentality. Think how shocked he was when he learned of Horus betrayal.
 

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Plus Dorn continually gets beaten by other primarchs in various military pursuits. Kurze in single combat (Dark King), Perturabo in siege warfare (Iron Cage incident), Guilliman (post-Heresy politics), etc. Ok, so that last one is an extrapolation of Dorn not wanting to go to the Codex Astartes and allowing himself to be blackmailed into it. Therefore I don't think anyone can be sure in the prowess of Rogal Dorn and the ability to use events involving him as a basis for comparison between primarchs.

That being said:

1 - Horus
2 - Sanguinius
3 - Perturabo (because he is my favorite)
4 - Angron
5 - Lehman Russ
 

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Magnus the Red, greatest psyker ever next to the emperor. Russ is the worst for being stupid enough to allow Horus to manipulate him into destroying a loyal brother legion.
 

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Bane of Empires
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Russ is the worst for being stupid enough to allow Horus to manipulate him into destroying a loyal brother legion.
Thats not clear yet.

I haven't been there, but i've been told the one in manchester is the best:



Hmm, I'm doing this wrong aren't i.....
That my friend, deserves a +rep :biggrin:
 

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description whore
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I haven't been there, but i've been told the one in manchester is the best:



Hmm, I'm doing this wrong aren't i.....
Hehe it is actually really good, and seems big enough for you to actually breath rather than being trampled by fat chicks looking for low price corsets

The oxford street one is pretty alright but i agree the manchester one is superior, i pass it on my way to gw.

If we are talking in single combat who is the most effective in single upright combat with just a squad of your average guardsman
Angron
Russ
Horus
Magnus
Lion
 

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I know that in many sources Horus is referred to as the greatest of the primarchs, i just don't buy into it that much. I dont know the actual words the these sources use but IMO they refer to Horus as being the "overall" best which is not the same as being the best close combat fighter (however, if these sources do actually state "best close combat fighter" i will happily retract this statement). But Horus was bested by that Nurgle thing (to the point of almost dieing) where as Sanguinius beats the most hardcore champion of Khorne...

My top 5 change depending on when in the Heresy this list would happen:

(Early Great Crusade)

1.Sanguinius
2.Leman Russ
3.Angron
4.Horus
5. Corax

(Late Heresy)

1. Horus (there can be no argument)
2. Sanguinius (beats uber khorne champion)
3. Leman Russ (beats Magnus)
4. Angron (crazy mofo)
5. this one is tuff because im not sure about the influence of chaos on each of the Primarchs but if the demon inside Fulgrim is powerful then Fulgrim, if not then prolly Magnus. Or those 2 reversed in dont know
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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1. Horus

There's a reason why only a couple of Primarchs worth a damn grumbled about his being chosen for the position Warmaster, with the other notable exception being the ever-so-lucid Angron. Charisma, acumen, prowess, experience, a solid victory record--Horus had it all.

2. Roboute Guilliman

The epitomy of the Emperor's intent where the Great Crusade is concerned. Perhaps he didn't win as often or as much as Horus or the Lion, but where he left behind solid Imperial worlds and recruiting systems for the most successful Legion of the era. A solid strategician and tactician, a compiler of knowledge and information--a most well-rounded general indeed.

3. Lion El'Jonson

Ranks behind Guilliman because he has not shown (thus far in the fluff, at any rate) the interest or ability of the Ultramarines Primarch in assimilating worlds in the Imperium. Ranks behind Horus because he lacks the charisma of the Warmaster.

Overall, though, the finest warlord of the Imperium. Period. Found with only about 50 years left in the Great Crusade (a fourth of the overall duration), he compiled more victories than any other Primarch except Horus--who was present for all of the Crusade. The same can be said for his physical prowess. When Leman Russ sucker-punched him, the Lion only got mad. When the Lion sucker-punched Russ, he stayed down until the Dark Angels had all the time in the world to move their forces off-planet and to enter the Warp.

4. Alpharius

The "youngest" of the Primarchs in the sense that he had the least amount of time in the Great Crusade, he nonetheless demonstrated incredible tactical and strategic acumen. Who knows? Given more time, he might have proven greater than Lion El'Jonson... but one can also argue that, given his "training period" (I think it's referred to in the Index Astartes), he might have had a leg up on absorbing existing Imperial strategies and tactics--something the other Primarchs did not necessarily have.

5. Fulgrim

Pompous, arrogant, but also possessed of great combat prowess, charisma, and leadership abilities. The Emperor's Children focused not merely on "brilliant" but perfect.

Honorable mentions:
Dorn: the Emperor's go-to guy when the Heresy starts. Could be just because he was nearby, though. We'll get more clarification as the story unfolds, though. If he was chosen over other Primarchs, this might raise his stock.
Sanguinius: Horus' choice for Warmaster, though this might be an emotional response during a tough time. Great in terms of prowess and charisma... what about strategy?
Magnus: for sheer psychic power and vision.
 

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Nice list but just think and remember that the ultrasmurf primarch is that he got battered by daemon fulgrim and has since been in stasis.

Ps Where do I post a thread moaning about special characters like Calgar etc?
 

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Personal opinion might cloud this, but might as well throw my cloud into the mix.

1. Horus
2. Rogal Dorn
3. Robute Guilliman
4. Fulgrim
5. Night Haunter

Again, can't say for certain, but here's my reasoning.

Horus was favored by the Emperor as first amongst equals. He was without equal, and hence, better than all others.

Rogal Dorn. The Emperor placed him in charge of the Defense of Terra. Epic Win in my book. You can't beat having the Emperor's favor (although he had the slight advantage of being right there...). I believe the Emperor forsaw the whole thing, so, having planned to have Rogal Dorn right there makes sense.

Robute Guilliman makes my list grudgingly. I personally felt for a long time he was a stuck up b****. But, let's face it. Marneus managed to build an empire of his own long before the Emperor came by, and that Empire still holds strong while also providing assistance to the rest of the Imperium (in part due to 90% of the Ultramarines legion not making it to the fight with Horus, of course).

Fulgrim. Perfection. Synonymous? Sure. Most have mentioned Sanguinious. Sanguinious was graceful, sure, a good fighter no doubt. But he was prone to rage, wasn't he? He wasn't perfect, or anywhere nears, or else Slaanesh would have come to him, not Khorne, as someone previously mentioned. Fulgrim on the other hand, was a war god in his own right, and even as he turned to Chaos, he was enhancing his combat abilities to improve the likelihood he would be victorious.

Night Haunter. As previously stated, he ripped Rogal Dorn a new one. If I'm going to say Rogal was second to Horus, then whoever could have brought him low would also have to make my list. If it weren't Corax, I would have put Perturabo here. Equal to Rogal Dorn in siege tactics, and all. Erego, he'd be up here on the list.

Just my tuppence.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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Nice list but just think and remember that the ultrasmurf primarch is that he got battered by daemon fulgrim and has since been in stasis.
There's more to being one of the five "greatest Primarchs" than winning duels. Fulgrim is eclipsed by Guilliman in virtually every other category. What impact did he have on the 40k universe compared to the Ultramarines Primarch?

Rogal Dorn. The Emperor placed him in charge of the Defense of Terra. Epic Win in my book.
Hence my honorable mention, but...

Isn't there also the possibility that Rogal Dorn just happened to be the closest at hand? Who else was around? The Lion, Guilliman and Russ were all far away. The Khan ended up helping Russ out following Prospero, which implies that he, too, was far away. Corax's Legion was decimated, Vulkan may or may not have been missing in action, and Ferrus was dead.

That leaves Sanguinius. Who was also not at Terra.

Personally, I'd posit that the fact Dorn was going to Terra anyways (Eisenstein), combined with his skill-set in defenses (which would be the necessary conduct of the war, being that the Imperium was wrong-footed), along with the fact that the Emperor had no one else nearby (and, let's face it, Dorn was a Primarch and thus an able strategist and warrior) made him the only choice... not the best choice.

Night Haunter. As previously stated, he ripped Rogal Dorn a new one.
Again, personal combat is hardly the only merit for judging Primarchs. Add to that the fact that Dorn was in no way expecting battle. Kurze was certainly an able Primarch and very good at what he did, but he simply doesn't rate top five. His generalship doesn't imply anything stunning, his model for pacifying worlds proved to be a sham (see Nostramo), his charisma was completely absent outside of his Legion, etc.

Corax proved himself to be nothing special outside of his specific niche, and Perturabo, who prided himself in largely the same activities and showed little exceptional promise elsewhere, came up short in the ultimate test.

Sorry! Agree to disagree, I guess. :grin:
 
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