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Discussion Starter #1
So im trying to decide which one (Tomb Blades or Wraiths) to add to my list but I cant make up my mind. Right now my list is pretty shooty so im not sure if I should stick with that theme and go Blades or if I should give myself a CC option with the Wraiths. Anyway Im looking to you guys for help....what do you guys think about Blades and Wraiths and which do you think I should go with?

Thanks Guys
 

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I vote Wraiths. Their pretty deadly, and very hard to kill.

Also once you've faced a few people with them they'll start to focus on killing them first (witch is easier said then done) so the rest of your stuff can live to shoot more!
 

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If you want to focus on shooting, tomb blades can help you well. Same range as everything else and wont pin down a unit in an assault that you want to be pouring gunfire into, like termies. Wraiths won't generally wipe terminators out, and no sane SM player is going to voluntarily pull them out of the assault, unless they plan on immediately re-assaulting. I find the only thing able to reliably kill warriors, or any necrons really, is dual claws termies. THSS just sit there and stalemate, especially if you have an orb and an ark nearby.
 

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I vote for wraiths. I run a unit of 3 wraiths in my 2000 point necron list and it does well. You just gotta get it in your head that they are not going to slaughter heavy assault targets. The problem in my oppinion with the bikes is that they don't add anything that you don't have from your troops and annihilation barges and they take up a slot that could be scarabs. Wraiths on the other hand gives you some reactionary ability which is handy when dealing with drop posed guys and outflankers. Those three wraiths can do quite a bit of damage to some guys dropping ino your lines. They can take out guys that scarab would be wasted on.
 

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Tomb blades are jetbikes, they can operate as a QRF as well and don't have to get into assault range to do it. Don't get me wrong, I love wraiths. But 5 S6 blast templates are nothing to scoff at, especially on something as mobile as a jetbike. You can give them sheildvanes and they get a 3+. They don't have the 3++ of the wraiths, but then, they can also shoot at enemies effectively.
 

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I think Wraiths give a Necron list more options than Tomb Blades do. The entire Necron Codex shoots and is pretty good at it and Tomb Blades tend to add more of the same (though the blast templates are pretty awesome). Wraiths add an entirely new element to your army though, allowing you to either aggressively or defensively assault enemy units and win, something that can't really be found anywhere else in the book.
 

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The big thing the Tomb Blades have going for them, other than shooting is Reanimation Protocols. Wraiths are typically more survivable, though strength 8 does ID them, but Tomb Blades have a chance to get back in the fight. The big thing is points cost and how you would load either group out.
 

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Putting the tesla or gauss weapons on the blades is, in my opinion, a massive waste. Why get a flying immortal when you can just get two immortals? Necrons don't do MSU very well, and operate best in FLU. Get the unit of ten immortals over the five blades.

However, immortals can't take particle beamers (Oh god, if they could...) while blades can. Tomb blades are highly mobile, and will simply kite any enemy the opponent tries to throw at them. Against hordes, they are amazing. You want to have imotekh so they can avoid the worst shooting (AP3 or better weapons tend to be fairly scarce, and longer range than others), and give them shieldvanes to force the enemy to prioritize their fairly less common AP3 firepower their way. The downside? Five models. This is why you need Imotekh, so they can't be focused to death to deny RP. There is really very little that can take advantage of the night fighting better than tomb blades can. High mobility with a 24" range and the ability to quickly zip to a flank is great. Even things like Wraiths still have to hope for the best when using the 24" range, as they will almost always get shot at while moving forward.

On the other hand, Deepstriking wraiths behind terrain is a really nasty trick. The enemy will want to get rid of them before they simply jump over the terrain and charge something. They are big, killy, and scary, and supremely hard to kill. However, S8 instant death (Hammernators/PFists, anyone?) is a threat, as is being shot to death.
 

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Wraiths. Deadly, stabby, fast, hard to kill. What more do you want? I've yet to see a Wraith squad not make back its points value and more in kills.
 

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Personally I would go for blades, its cheap to make them BS5 and only 10pts to give them 3+, weapons are more likely to do more than because they are twin linked (not including particle beamer if I'm right) and they can get around the field quicker, not to mention they can get back up and wraiths can't.

Wraiths are good, don't get me wrong and definately worth the points given whip coils but against power fists and it's instant deaths so you can't really go near terminators and there the ones you want to kill, however if your army is shooty then keep it that way, its not exactly hard for blades to stay out of assault range, and their weapons are great for their price and great anti-infantry.

So yeah I would go with blades.
 

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I say Tomb Blades for all the reasons listed above and the fact that they look just awesome. They are great models. Not that Wraiths aren't, but Tomb Blades are a great aesthetic addition to a Necron army.
Mind you, I still haven't gotten to play my Blades, and Wraiths have definitely been outstanding performers in their games.
 

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Wraiths. You have a shooty army. What do you do when that Rhino you were kind of ignoring drops of a unit of assault marines and you've got no time to open fire? You send your wraiths in, of course! Wraiths + Whip Coils = Win
 

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Wraiths. You have a shooty army. What do you do when that Rhino you were kind of ignoring drops of a unit of assault marines and you've got no time to open fire? You send your wraiths in, of course! Wraiths + Whip Coils = Win
Well the assault marines can't charge nor can they move far since they don't have jump packs on, and they can't range anything past 12" since they've all got pistols or at most a melta, there's ALWAYS time to shoot :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wow you guys seem pretty split about which one to go with. In the end I thinks its TBs for me. I think TBs just fit in a little better with my theme plus to be honest after looking at the Wraith models closer I just dont like them....they are way to big

Thanks for all the input guys.
 

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I'm kind of amazed at the number of people that use shield vanes. To me, shield vanes screams never take. Why increase the cost from 20 to 30 just for a 3+ instead of 4+? And some people even take the blast template increasing the cost to 40 points! That's just silly. Instead of paying 40 you could just buy a whole other bike! The 2 twin linked yes shots will be fine. The two twin linked tesla are way more likely to hit and hurt than the blast template and the two bikes with 4+ are way tougher than the 1 bike with 3+. It's just a win win to not upgrade them.
 

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Because if you're going to do MSU with Necrons (And lets face it- 5 models is a small unit for a t4(5) with a 4+ save) you need to make them both survivable and killy. If you're just going to give them gauss or tesla, just get immortals. Cheaper, better save, can take a transport, and most importantly, comes in tens. The beamer is what sets them apart. No one says you have to take both upgrades, but the point of the 3+ is not that you want them to survive, its that you want the enemy to actually have to try to kill them. 4+ is basically as good as no armor at all in the mechanized metagame, where AP4 or better weapons are all over the place. AP3 is a lot rarer by contrast, and while its not exactly non-existent, forcing the enemy to prioritize AP3 shots at them over something else makes the enemy split his fire inefficiently. What he ignores will kill him.

Ultimately, if you take vanilla blades, you're going to lose them to one round of shooting from a dakka pred or equivalent. They might fire their gauss or tesla weapons once the whole game, whoopdy fuckin doo, for a 20 point model. They don't have the shot saturation to take advantage of the Tesla option, and while gauss is better at just about everything, it, once again, fails to have the shot quantity to successfuly stunlock a vehicle. You'll hit with about three of them, and from there its a 50/50 chance you will get a single six. From there, you have a 1/3 chance to do goddamn nothing at all. Math hammer isn't looking good here. Yes, they get RP, but they can't use it if the whole squad wipes. They aren't meant to be durable, if you want durable, get more Warriors to take advantage of mass RP. They are meant to zip around and kill stuff. Not a whole lot that does that better than a S6 blast on a thirty point model that also happens to be a jetbike that can resurrect. I think a blade with both upgrades, to take it to 40 points a model, makes a pretty good unit that will survive to RP, and then dish some out. If your first move is a turbo boost, 3+ cover, yes, but you do plan to be able to shoot eventually right? 5 Gauss or Tesla shots do not have the capacity to kill an entire enemy unit, plain and simple. 5 S6 blast templates, however, can annihilate a mob of Boyz or Gaunts or IG or anything, really. Worried about bubblewrap around a Lemon? 5 S6 blasts. Green tide? 5 S6 blasts. Gauntspam? 5 S6 blasts. They can even be useful against MEq, what with wounding on 2+. You can drown a tac squad or grey hunters in so many wounds that making armor saves won't help them. For bonus points throw in a stalker to mark enemies for the blades, and give them TL blasts, as well as softening the unit.
 

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Because if you're going to do MSU with Necrons (And lets face it- 5 models is a small unit for a t4(5) with a 4+ save) you need to make them both survivable and killy. If you're just going to give them gauss or tesla, just get immortals. Cheaper, better save, can take a transport, and most importantly, comes in tens. The beamer is what sets them apart. No one says you have to take both upgrades, but the point of the 3+ is not that you want them to survive, its that you want the enemy to actually have to try to kill them. 4+ is basically as good as no armor at all in the mechanized metagame, where AP4 or better weapons are all over the place. AP3 is a lot rarer by contrast, and while its not exactly non-existent, forcing the enemy to prioritize AP3 shots at them over something else makes the enemy split his fire inefficiently. What he ignores will kill him.

Ultimately, if you take vanilla blades, you're going to lose them to one round of shooting from a dakka pred or equivalent. They might fire their gauss or tesla weapons once the whole game, whoopdy fuckin doo, for a 20 point model. They don't have the shot saturation to take advantage of the Tesla option, and while gauss is better at just about everything, it, once again, fails to have the shot quantity to successfuly stunlock a vehicle. You'll hit with about three of them, and from there its a 50/50 chance you will get a single six. From there, you have a 1/3 chance to do goddamn nothing at all. Math hammer isn't looking good here. Yes, they get RP, but they can't use it if the whole squad wipes. They aren't meant to be durable, if you want durable, get more Warriors to take advantage of mass RP. They are meant to zip around and kill stuff. Not a whole lot that does that better than a S6 blast on a thirty point model that also happens to be a jetbike that can resurrect. I think a blade with both upgrades, to take it to 40 points a model, makes a pretty good unit that will survive to RP, and then dish some out. If your first move is a turbo boost, 3+ cover, yes, but you do plan to be able to shoot eventually right? 5 Gauss or Tesla shots do not have the capacity to kill an entire enemy unit, plain and simple. 5 S6 blast templates, however, can annihilate a mob of Boyz or Gaunts or IG or anything, really. Worried about bubblewrap around a Lemon? 5 S6 blasts. Green tide? 5 S6 blasts. Gauntspam? 5 S6 blasts. They can even be useful against MEq, what with wounding on 2+. You can drown a tac squad or grey hunters in so many wounds that making armor saves won't help them. For bonus points throw in a stalker to mark enemies for the blades, and give them TL blasts, as well as softening the unit.
I will preface this by saying I haven't used them with particle, But I still think they are better just plain. I personally think that immortals are good and for 3 points changing an immortal into a jetbike for +1 toughness, faster movement and twin linked and only losing the 3+ for a 4+ is not a bad deal really. I do prefer both scarabs and wraiths to TB but that doesn't make them bad it just means that scarabs and wraiths are really good.

The twin linked carbine is really good. it's only 1 str lower than the blast and with twin linked it raises the possibility of 6 by alot. a roll of 6 on a tesla is pretty much the same as a perfect hit with the small blast.

On another note, they won't die in the first turn due to night fighting. Necrons shouldn't be doing all that much dying at first IMO.

Speaking of mathhammer, i'm a phd in it. If you shoot with 5 twin linked teslas (only 100 points) you will hit on average around 6 times (almost 7 actually) That will result in around 4 wounds on meq. Against guard EQ the teslas fair even better because they wound on 2+ just like the big blasts do. Notably, the particle castors are totally amazing against scarabs swarms though haha.

There is no way that a group of particle beamers would whip a squad of boys though. Even if they were in the open and you hit 4 of them with every single shot. If they were in cover and you missed with half the shots which is statistical, then it's not going to do that much.
 

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In a game I had the other day against some orks I had a particle beamer on a spyder and i ahnialated the boys before they could get close, and each shot scattered about 4'', the guy wan't a bad play it was just that he had to have so many boys and the blast hits a reasonable amount.
 
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