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I am currently reading Courage and Honor, an Ultramarines Novel based around the events of the Hero Captain Uriel Ventris.

I started thinking about this, and decided I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on the matter.

I was wondering if there were any Heroes within the Imperium who would actually be a match for the various heroes within Chaos.

For example: is there anyone who you can think of that could stand up to say Ezekyle Abaddon in a one on one fight?

Or how about Lucius the Eternal? Are there any Heroes among the Imperial forces who could stand up to this guys?


I've obviously left out plenty of Heroes from both sides, so if you've any to add feel free along with what you think on the matter.
 

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I don't know to be honest. I try not to think about it, but the Ultramarines series is the only series where I've seen complete domination of Chaos forces. Both in Dead Sky, Black Sun and The Chapter's Due. In the Word Bearers trilogy I think you see more of a better looking depiction of what happens to a space marine or even a space marine Chapter Master (who's chapter is devoted against the fight against chaos) when they fuck with a chaos space marine. I am blank with words on the Ultramarines series.

As to your question though, I think the best odds would be Uriel and Calagar.
 

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I am currently reading Courage and Honor, an Ultramarines Novel based around the events of the Hero Captain Uriel Ventris.
I was wondering if there were any Heroes within the Imperium who would actually be a match for the various heroes within Chaos.
For example: is there anyone who you can think of that could stand up to say Ezekyle Abaddon in a one on one fight?
I've obviously left out plenty of Heroes from both sides, so if you've any to add feel free along with what you think on the matter.
I think the toughest Space Marine other than a Primarch would either a Chapter Master or the higher ranked Grey Knights in a fight against a leading CSM.
Then I got to thinking about the Soul Drinkers, the rebel Sarpedon had to fight his own Chapter Master and was loosing badly, then a chaos prince gave him a small amount of power that mutated him and he tore his Chapter Master to shreds.
So any Chaos Space Marine of leadership level isnt going to be easy to face one on one, but heroic fights in fiction loves see heroes beat massive odds - usually by finding a weakspot or achilles heel (ie cheating).
I can name a few fights that show how tough the high level chaos heroes are.

The big Grey Knight hero (forget his name) becomes slave on a Khorn death world after being one punched by a Khorne champion.
Eisonhorns entire team are petrified in terror by one single CSM and need bequin to break the spell of being frozen in terror by his presence alone, and only beats him by throwing the necronomicon at him to distract him and deliver the death blow.
Ragnar frequently fight a CSM leader and only survives by the skin of his teeth most of the time.
They are pretty tough.
 

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Then I got to thinking about the Soul Drinkers, the rebel Sarpedon had to fight his own Chapter Master and was loosing badly, then a chaos prince gave him a small amount of power that mutated him and he tore his Chapter Master to shreds.
I havn't read that book but it sounds like it was an unexpeced power increase that lead to a quick kill for Sarpedon. I would guess the CM wasn't taking him seriously and then the next minute the guy's part deamon.
So any Chaos Space Marine of leadership level isnt going to be easy to face one on one, but heroic fights in fiction loves see heroes beat massive odds - usually by finding a weakspot or achilles heel (ie cheating).
I can name a few fights that show how tough the high level chaos heroes are.
Hitting a weak point isn't cheating, it's smart. If you're a Tau Firewarrior facing Nids you don't melee them, you shoot them.
The big Grey Knight hero (forget his name) becomes slave on a Khorn death world after being one punched by a Khorne champion.
Eisonhorns entire team are petrified in terror by one single CSM and need bequin to break the spell of being frozen in terror by his presence alone, and only beats him by throwing the necronomicon at him to distract him and deliver the death blow.
Ragnar frequently fight a CSM leader and only survives by the skin of his teeth most of the time.
They are pretty tough.
I love story mechanics, they allow the story to go forward. A chaos champ one punching a GK is laughable. A deamon Prince, ok but a regular (thats a funny term to use here) Champion? no way. They would be to similar in power levels.
 

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For example: is there anyone who you can think of that could stand up to say Ezekyle Abaddon in a one on one fight?
Though there are some heroes of the astartes (for example Dante, Mephiston, Lysander, Calgar, Tigurius, Grimnar etc.) who could give most of the chaos boys a pretty decent run for their money, I don't believe that there is a loyalist alive who has a snowball's chance in hell against Abaddon in a one on one fight.

By the way, does anyone know how old Logan Grimnar is coz' supposedly he's been chapter master of the SW for over 700 years?
 

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The Emperor Protects
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I dunno, a Aureullian killed/banished Angron, Dante supposedly killed a bloodthirster(could be a myth though) the Sanguinator defeinetly killed a bloodthirster, a Space Wolf put up a good fight against Magnus, Calgar killed an Avatar. The big Astartes heroes have pulled off some pretty amazing feats, i wouldn't count them all out against Abaddon, i mean come on, who has he really killed of any significance? sure he rallies the chaos troops and makes really good plans........well 13 crusades of fail, but he's never gone out and killed some uber heroe or beast of any kind that i can remember reading. Could be wrong but still, i bet Dante, Mephiston, Calgar, Blackman, Grimmnar could give him a good fight, if not beat him
 

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I dunno, a Aureullian killed/banished Angron, Dante supposedly killed a bloodthirster(could be a myth though) the Sanguinator defeinetly killed a bloodthirster, a Space Wolf put up a good fight against Magnus, Calgar killed an Avatar. The big Astartes heroes have pulled off some pretty amazing feats, i wouldn't count them all out against Abaddon, i mean come on, who has he really killed of any significance? sure he rallies the chaos troops and makes really good plans........well 13 crusades of fail, but he's never gone out and killed some uber heroe or beast of any kind that i can remember reading. Could be wrong but still, i bet Dante, Mephiston, Calgar, Blackman, Grimmnar could give him a good fight, if not beat him
So you're saying that they could give Horus's successor a run for his money, the greatest among the Luna Wolves during the Great Crusade and current chosen one of all four chaos gods? I'm sorry but I really don't see that happening. Plus, the Despoiler has an ace in the hole. He's got the uber powerful daemon sword Drach'nyen as well as the Talon of Horus. There aren't many weapons the imperium possess that can match up to those (with the probable exception of things like the Soulspear etc.) Maybe if they ganged up on him they might have a shot but that's about it. Well, that's what my opinion is anyway.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Horus he is not though. He became defacto leader of the Sons of Horus as Horus was dead. It's like saying Julius Kaeseron, Typhus, Kharn, Sahaal, Kor Phaereon, Ingo Pech or any of the first captains from the crusade era are essence and like as good as the primarchs themselves. Angron is a deamon primarch! Your saying Abaddon is more powerful than him? or bloodthristers, avatars, numerous deamon princes, and a whole manner of other insanely powerful monsters/individuals. Wielding those weapons does not make him invulnerable, at the end of the day the Talons of Horus are just mega lightning claws. Calgar has the Gauntlets of Ultramar, worn by Guilliman himself and killed an Avatar with them.
 

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Bane of Empires
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It's like saying Julius Kaeseron, Typhus, Kharn, Sahaal, Kor Phaereon, Ingo Pech or any of the first captains from the crusade era are essence and like as good as the primarchs themselves.
Although like he said, Abaddon now wields one of the most powerful weapons of all time. A blade that can literally rend reality apart. As well as being protected and blessed directly by the Chaos Gods. There are few if any Imperial champions that could stand against Abaddon single-handedly.

Angron is a deamon primarch!
And therefore totally reliant on a source of warp energy for enroachments into the material realm, being a major weakness (something Abaddon needs not worry too much about). He faced the some of the galaxy's greatest anti-Chaos weapons, those trained and prepared in the art of daemonic banishments, and even then he still decimated the most part of an entire terminator company if memory serves.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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A blade that if memory serves would love to turn on him should he release its power, theirs a big deus ex machina just waiting to happen there. And what if the chaos gods get bored with him, or the fact that in 13 black crusades of fail he still hasnt even managed to take Cadia, let alone kill the Emperor like he keeps promising to do. He isn't immortal, i still think the greatest imperial heroes could give him a good fucking run for his money or potentially beat him.
 

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A blade that if memory serves would love to turn on him should he release its power, theirs a big deus ex machina just waiting to happen there. And what if the chaos gods get bored with him, or the fact that in 13 black crusades of fail he still hasnt even managed to take Cadia, let alone kill the Emperor like he keeps promising to do. He isn't immortal, i still think the greatest imperial heroes could give him a good fucking run for his money or potentially beat him.
He did take Cadia for a bit during the 13th crusade, or at least established a decent foothold for a while. Also, the Chaos Gods currently AREN'T bored with him. They're still fuelling him with some of their power. Saying that the Chaos Gods might get bored with Abaddon one day doesn't really apply to comparing him to others in his current state because otherwise you might as well say, 'What if Calgar gets so old that he needs to shove a stick up his ass to stand up straight?' Then he obviously won't be able to take on Abaddon.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Yes but the question was on todays heroes, not todays in a few centuries when they are too old to carry on. Calgars still young, as are most of them save Dante who is still kicking massive amount of ass. The chaos gods could abandon Abaddon at any moment, they are fickle and random like that after all
 

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Bane of Empires
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A blade that if memory serves would love to turn on him should he release its power
Regardless, Abaddon wielding Drach'nyen is still clearly much more of an advantage than disadvantage. It is one of the most powerful weapons in 40k lore, one that largely increases the Despoiler's already formidable power.

And what if the chaos gods get bored with him
The point is they havn't, not even after ~10,000 years. Yes the Chaos Gods are fickle and irrational, but if they havn't abadoned him thus far, I don't think they are likely to do so any time soon, especially considering the widespread devastation caused to the material realm by the recent 13th Black Crusade.

or the fact that in 13 black crusades of fail he still hasnt even managed to take Cadia, let alone kill the Emperor like he keeps promising to do.
This isn't really the place to discuss it, but in my opinion not a single one of his crusades have failed or been failures.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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This isn't really the place to discuss it, but in my opinion not a single one of his crusades have failed or been failures.
From what little there is on fluff on Abaddon, at least he doesn't think the crusades have been complete failures. In the overall scheme of things, perhaps the crusades have not been failures as to some suggest. Both representatives of two other legions, (Talos from the Night Lords) and (Honsou of the Iron Warriors) both regard Abaddon and his crusades as failures. More so though due to their Legions suffering as a consequence though.

I'm really not sure if the Imperium generally has Heroes that are skilled enough to fight the powers of chaos. Lets face it, these traitor legions are pretty old and definitely more veteran than most of the astartes in the 40k realm. I think more or less though it has been the Imperium ability in wearing these legions down that has been their ultimate triumph. This ties into my previous paragragh. We can tell more with the Night Lords that their supplies and abilities to maintain their legion is failing. Abaddon's crusade is just dragging their legion down. With the Iron Warriors, Honsou seems to have taken his own crusade regarding Abaddon as a failure. The rest/most of the Iron Warriors basically just paid a toll to keep from joining his crusade. The Word Bearers seem to have something going on with their own agenda; another purging within their ranks and perhaps the chaos legions. So Abaddon is losing the support of three legions. Perhaps not entirely, but definitely a heart felt loss.

To be honest, Abaddon must win his foothold in Cadia to gain further support or he will suffer.
 

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The contained within has nothing to do with the thread, its about Abaddon and the crusades. Thou hast been warned!





As for the OP, there are some heroes of the Imperium who could stand up against some of the various chaos champions. Stand up to, not win mind you. Someone like Tigirius or Mephiston might be able to go toe to toe with the likes of Ahriman or Typhus but fact remains that they have a mastery above the loyalists and do not need to worry so much about control or restraint.

Fact is though, they are still much younger and much less experienced in comparison; your basic legion marine might easily be the match of two, three, or even four loyalist marines
 

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I dunno, a Aureullian killed/banished Angron, Dante supposedly killed a bloodthirster(could be a myth though) the Sanguinator defeinetly killed a bloodthirster, a Space Wolf put up a good fight against Magnus, Calgar killed an Avatar. The big Astartes heroes have pulled off some pretty amazing feats, i wouldn't count them all out against Abaddon, i mean come on, who has he really killed of any significance? sure he rallies the chaos troops and makes really good plans........well 13 crusades of fail,
How has he failed? The only one that I can think of as a failure was the First, and even then Dorn was lost during the fighting and he was able to grab Drach'nyen. In the Seventh he defeated the Blood Angels so badly they were unable to recover the bodies of their fallen form his grasp. The Gothic War was pretty much about the Blackstones and he achived appearantly enough to begin his next phase. The 13th was inconsclusive.

We dont' know how the other Black Crusades turned out for him or even what his plans or objectives even were.

but he's never gone out and killed some uber heroe or beast of any kind that i can remember reading. Could be wrong but still, i bet Dante, Mephiston, Calgar, Blackmane, Grimmnar could give him a good fight, if not beat him
He one-shotted a three meter adamantium gate. In his Index Astartes he was called unstoppable.

At El'Phanor, his forces assaulted the Citadel of the Kromarch; a fastness built with all the cunning its designers could muster. It was pierced with but a single portal, a mighty gate of adamantium, fully three metres thick, but Abaddon cared not. He boasted that he would feast on the Kromarch's kin and led the charge of the gate himself. The Citadel was a masterpiece of military engineering and barely one in ten of Abaddon's warriors survived to reach the gate. To either side, enemy weapons prevented their retreat, but Abaddon laughed, raising his sword wreathed in black flames high above his head and smote the gate a blow that smashed it to splinters and shook the very foundations of the citadel. As Abaddon had promised, he and his warriors feasted upon the Kromarch.
That is a very impressive physcial feat. Anyone think that Grimnar or Calgar could one-shot something like that?

A blade that if memory serves would love to turn on him should he release its power, theirs a big deus ex machina just waiting to happen there.
Maybe not, in 3.5 he was the only Chaos champion who mastered his dameon weapon compltetely.

And what if the chaos gods get bored with him, or the fact that in 13 black crusades of fail he still hasnt even managed to take Cadia, let alone kill the Emperor like he keeps promising to do.
Again, how has he failed?

From what little there is on fluff on Abaddon, at least he doesn't think the crusades have been complete failures. In the overall scheme of things, perhaps the crusades have not been failures as to some suggest. Both representatives of two other legions, (Talos from the Night Lords) and (Honsou of the Iron Warriors) both regard Abaddon and his crusades as failures. More so though due to their Legions suffering as a consequence though.

I'm really not sure if the Imperium generally has Heroes that are skilled enough to fight the powers of chaos. Lets face it, these traitor legions are pretty old and definitely more veteran than most of the astartes in the 40k realm. I think more or less though it has been the Imperium ability in wearing these legions down that has been their ultimate triumph. This ties into my previous paragragh. We can tell more with the Night Lords that their supplies and abilities to maintain their legion is failing. Abaddon's crusade is just dragging their legion down. With the Iron Warriors, Honsou seems to have taken his own crusade regarding Abaddon as a failure. The rest/most of the Iron Warriors basically just paid a toll to keep from joining his crusade. The Word Bearers seem to have something going on with their own agenda; another purging within their ranks and perhaps the chaos legions. So Abaddon is losing the support of three legions. Perhaps not entirely, but definitely a heart felt loss.

To be honest, Abaddon must win his foothold in Cadia to gain further support or he will suffer.
Not quite. Talos's opinions do not reflect the entire Night Lords Legion. In Soul Hunter we meet some Night Lords who fully supprt Abaddon and even one who has actually joined the Black Legion. The same applies for Honsou, he does not speak for the entire IV Legion.

Not to mention Abaddon appears to have plenty of support. The Chaos codex talks about how Champions and warbands from all legions are clamoring to join Abaddon because of his sucesses.
 

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Not quite. Talos's opinions do not reflect the entire Night Lords Legion. In Soul Hunter we meet some Night Lords who fully supprt Abaddon and even one who has actually joined the Black Legion. The same applies for Honsou, he does not speak for the entire IV Legion.
Talos and Honsou do not speak for the entirety of their legions, this much is true, but you can see that these legions have their own agenda as well. For example, The Night lords as an entire legion in their persuit of the recording of their lost primarch went searching for it. The Iron Warriors have paid Abaddon in captured geneseed to remain silent (for the most part) in Abaddon's crusade. Not to mention Talos has great influence in his legion.

Not to mention Abaddon appears to have plenty of support. The Chaos codex talks about how Champions and warbands from all legions are clamoring to join Abaddon because of his sucesses.
This much is true as well, though as I said this crusade must prevail in order to maintain their support. It seems that the chaos astartes are mastly outnumbered. All they really have is warbands of the first legions and I could only find a few renegade chapters comparbily to the amount of loyalist chapters fighting against them. Who is to say they are at full strength too. The violaters have lost over a third of their chapter of which they will probably never know what has happened to them. The Night Lords for example are suffering from lost numbers and loss of equipment like astartes armor. I can only imagine these rengade chapters and warbands are suffering from the same problems. Theres a point where they will have to look to their well being of their warbands before Abaddon's crusade.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Fine i give up, you've proved a point, Abaddon really is just infinitly boring to me now, what's the point in a villain who is for all intents and purposes immortal, can smash down gates, nigh on wipe out chapters. Fuck him, 30k abbadon may have been interesting, but he currently to me is possibly the most boring character in 40k.

So in other words, long answer to the OP? read the thread, short answer, no, primarch banishing, avatar slaying, bloodthirster arsekickers and the like are no match for him, and i dearly wish i was being sarcastic in that statement, unfortunately i'm not
 
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