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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So, as suggested on a different thread by Bubblematrix! All credit to him :)

So here it is; Discuss how to protect a titan, which is an overlooked aspect of having a Super Heavy... It'll get all the attention.

So, as I'm completely obsessed with Tyranids atm; I'll talk about my idea to protect the ol' Bio-Titan!

So, this thing is big, It's wide, and tall- And It completely wrecks in close-combat (It's a 'nid, after all), So to support it, I'd have a wall of Gants, Possibly 30/40 of them. Then have them backed up by Some Hive Guards (Maybe 4) and a small zoan brood (2 or 3)

This offers enough gants for a meat shield, with some ranged support, to deal with Land Raiders trying to get Terminators in, to try and wound it.

So, Discuss your thoughts on Titans (all of armies) and how to protect them, so you can really use them to your advantage!
 

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To paraphrase the problem from a worried players perspective:

The basic issue:

Titans suffer more than most armour in CC, usually your armour will be cut appart by CC attacks due to weight of dice, power weapons etc - I have seen a simple two structure point superheavy killed by orks with powerclaws and it died about 10 times over by the end of the dice rolling, most power weapon wielding or high attack numbers (i.e. large dice pools) will kill even the heavy titans.

For me (and other Eldar apocalypse players) this will be a particular problem with the Phantom titan, pre-empting that it does not have some new and rediculous rules, we need a way to keep the approx 2k points on the table, this applies equally to other key superheavy units - think warlords/reavers/warhounds/armoured batallions.

So...

What effective tactics have you used or can you come up with to defend your huge points sink of heavy tanks/walkers.

Equally, what tactics do you use to effectively deploy CC units near heavy units?

I have had problems with:

Ork Komandoes with power claws - they have loads of attacks and are comparatively cheap to field in numbers
Termies with power claws - lets just cut the crap and question their parentage

The only real solution I have tried is avoiding the table edges, but this is not a long term solution.

I would of course also be interested in ways to exploit this weakness in opponents - I have used the Eldar avatar to this effect quite well, seer councils work on this principle - but I would like to use the collective intelligence of Heresy for some uber cheese in this area!
 

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Ok, I have designed (albeit quickly) a scenario to test titan defence, it shouldn't take too long so will give a chance to test out a few strategies, for those without a shiny titan to field use a simlar sized ornament, bucket, pot plant to represent the beastie.

Titan "King of the Hill" said:
Defender: Titan + units upto equal to the points cost of the titan (this makes the assumption that the titan is more hassle than it is worth if it costs more points to keep it alive than it cost to take in the first place)

Attacker: Any units totalling the points of the Titan + defending units, all must start in reserve, up to half can be deployed each turn, each time a unit is killed put it into reserve and add its points cost to the attackers total costs.

Deployment: Place the titan in the middle of the table, two table edges are chosen at random to be the attackers table edges for the purpose of deployment.

Strategems: Each side may take two strategems (ones which are silly should be debated as this is a test scenario, so "reinforcements" on the titan might be a tad silly)

Objective: for the attackers - kill the titan as quickly as possible, for the defenders - keep the titan alive and kill more points worth of units than the titan + guards cost
The objective is to try out some titan defence strategies, and at the same time some good strategies for killing titans.

I will try to get some games of this in at the weekend, I would be interested in other players experiences!
 

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whats the pronlem with power weapons, i understand the problem caused by powerfists/claws and thunder hammers but not normal power weapons. and the bio titan does not need protecting, 2+ armour 3+ invun 9 wounds toughnes 10, monster in close combat and shooting, its invincable, you cant kill it *sob* (my brother uses 1 the only way i find of killing it is to open up on it with at least 2 super gatlers, and sometimes it still suvives *sob*)
 

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and the bio titan does not need protecting, 2+ armour 3+ invun 9 wounds toughnes 10
Gargantuan creatures are a whole other subject, as they have a stat line they are less vulnerable to regular assaults, vehicles being vulnerable to CC attacks and melta etc means that titans are much easier to kill than the Tyranid equivalent, imho the biotitan is pretty much where a regular statline breaks down and where GW should have just said "ok its a bio vehicle, here are the armor values"
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
True, But then that would completely ignore all Tyranid fluff.

They have no vehicals, they don't use technology- It would have to remain strictly organic- But basically I agree, Bio-Titan is overpowered. :biggrin:

But then ofcourse; the imperium can take a warlord, so again GW fanboys win again. *sigh*

Arguably, in big games, you could protect a warlord with several groups of SS/TH Termies, even if you are chaos - Apocalypse is a jolt of freedom in chaos armies, we can finally field ANY space marine unit, just turned to chaos- Which arguably is how it should be!
 

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against orks?
learn the titans ability to stomp, and learn it well
one round of combat i rolled over 100 dice, just because i stomped, str 10 no armour against da green tide

blah blah blah titans are not stand alone units etc. etc.

protect their feet with something as scary as the titan itself, i like using thunderhammer terminators, survivable and scary
 

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Well, I've actually fought with and against most of the Titan-equivalents out there, and have a few ideas...

Eldar: The local Eldar player has a Phantom titan, so we've become quite adept at killing it. His reply? As many Wraithguard and Wraithlord units as he can field usually deter/kill most attackers, and if they DO maanged to kill the Wraith-screen they're usually picked off by the sheer firepower of the Phantom.

Imperium/Chaos (Lumped together as they basically have the same machines): Titan defense forces, usually made up of Terminators or other hard hitting/hard to kill units...

Just a question from above- Where does it state that the Hierophnat has a 3+ Invulnerable save?
 

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against orks?
learn the titans ability to stomp, and learn it well
one round of combat i rolled over 100 dice, just because i stomped, str 10 no armour against da green tide

blah blah blah titans are not stand alone units etc. etc.

protect their feet with something as scary as the titan itself, i like using thunderhammer terminators, survivable and scary
i have to admit that that is powerful, but against tough stuff like MCs ud be better using the normal atacks esspesially if ur usin a klaw stompa 7 destroyer hits 8 on the charge nasty (its less points than a normal stompa as well)

Just a question from above- Where does it state that the Hierophnat has a 3+ Invulnerable save?
the bio-titan has the 3+ invun from the warp field ability, though, as in the aocolyps rule book its a phycic power but in the new nid codex its an ability, it could be arguably null and void along with the exstra attaks granted by scything tallons (which they dont do any more)

exscuse my bad spelling
 

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True, But then that would completely ignore all Tyranid fluff.

They have no vehicals, they don't use technology- It would have to remain strictly organic- But basically I agree, Bio-Titan is overpowered. :biggrin:

But then ofcourse; the imperium can take a warlord, so again GW fanboys win again. *sigh*

Arguably, in big games, you could protect a warlord with several groups of SS/TH Termies, even if you are chaos - Apocalypse is a jolt of freedom in chaos armies, we can finally field ANY space marine unit, just turned to chaos- Which arguably is how it should be!

I will assume you mean warhound because a warlord titan would be an insta-win. There would be little to nothing that could stop that SOB unless you spammed bio-titans/revenants/chaos reavers.
 

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the bio-titan has the 3+ invun from the warp field ability, though, as in the aocolyps rule book its a phycic power but in the new nid codex its an ability, it could be arguably null and void along with the exstra attaks granted by scything tallons (which they dont do any more)

exscuse my bad spelling
As Gargantuan Creatures/Super Heavies can't be affected by friendly OR enemy psychic powers without a set strength value, it's safe to say the Hierophant DOESN'T have the 3+ Invulnerable... Of course, be nice if FW updated the rules.
 

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2 bio-titans could easily take down a warlord titan (32 strength 10 shts then an assult 18 strength 10 hits providing they both charge).
 

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2 bio-titans could easily take down a warlord titan (32 strength 10 shts then an assult 18 strength 10 hits providing they both charge).
Agreed, but I am not really seeing your point, the thread is less about "how to kill a titan easily" than "how to stop the titan dying easily".

Even a Hierophant (and its one of the most busted titan equivilents out there) would find tutored units to attack it hard to take, the issue is defending is hard not attacking, and anyone fielding 2500pts of Warlord Titan without a solid defence plan is asking to lose. Two Hierophants is points equivlent to a Warlord but you should expect another 2.5k of troops to back the Warlord up, personally I would go with terminator spam for the number of dice, add in some good armed and armoured transports and the match is less one sided.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Ok, are we talking about warhound or warlord? Have they even made rules for a warlord Titan? If so that would be retarded, but it's GW.
 

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the rules for the warlord are is the first datasheet in the Imperium section, and about defending them i wouldent go for teminator spam you just need a few powerful men (preferbly ones with a high inititive) to help the titan in close combat (preferably to assult a unit who look like there going to assult the titan next turn), the only thing that can damage a titan in close combat usualy strikes at inititive 1 so your defenders could take it out quite quickly and you cant even lock a titan in close combat so if it suvives (and tell me what can get up close to a titan, assult it and destroy it all in 1 turn) you can blast the men to picies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Warlord titans are in the Apocalypse book.. :p

Probably a few sets of 5 meltaguns, get up close, 10+ meltaguns will do some structure point damage, I'm sure of it.
 

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Warlord titans are in the Apocalypse book.. :p

Probably a few sets of 5 meltaguns, get up close, 10+ meltaguns will do some structure point damage, I'm sure of it.
Wee bit slow on the uptake there. Lol the ork already informed me.
 

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Im not being weird or anything but how does a titan get destroyed in close combat? Can't it just stand on things?

Terminator armour or not, being squashed is a pretty permanent death.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Titans most likely have low initiative (not got the book on me), so they'll probably strike at the same time as TH Termies; say you had a squad of 8 TH TEqs; That's 8 powerfist hits, probably about 4 will hit, penetrate; meaning your going to do some damage.

8 TH termies is literally like 2150 points cheaper than a titan. :laugh:
 
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