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Dark Knight
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
this has happen a few times now with my troll King
if l am in a duel do my stomps hit the person l am duelling or do they hit unit when the person has died from my normal attacks in that same combat phase

in other words do they go on to the unit or do l just count them all has overkill on the duel?
 

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Eastern Potent
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hmmm, stomp is the very last thing done iirc, after all other attacks? I would say in the duel, because technically you are in the duel until either you win and they break or hold, or they win and you break or hold.
 

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Any wounds caused by the thunderstomp go toward combat resolution(as overkill). They do not transfer to the unit.
 

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Not if the Target is already dead, then it's simply lost. If you're in a challange and kill the target before Thunder stomping you just kinda lose it as you have no target to use it against.

Aramoro
 

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Thunderstomp hits the guy you are duelling. unless he is dead, in which case it cannot be used.

I discovered this the hard way as my craftily tooled up orc warboss who demands you hit on 6's then fix's you to remove them got stomped into the floor... hard.
 

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Not if the Target is already dead, then it's simply lost. If you're in a challange and kill the target before Thunder stomping you just kinda lose it as you have no target to use it against.

Aramoro
Does this mean if you're riding a mount and the rider kills the champion the mount (assuming lower Init) doesn't get to attack? First I've heard of this. If the mount can attack, it can attack, including stomp/t-stomp. It's like saying a character with AHW can't use the extra attack if the original attack(s) kill the target.

Are you seriously saying that an Ogre character who kills a unit champion isn't allowed to grind his face in the mud with his foot? And that this wouldn't affect the champion's unit (overkill)?
 

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You cannot make any attacks after the enemy character is dead... but this is dont by I, not real life time. So if you have a character on a monstrous mount and the character kills the enemy at high I then the mount gets no attacks and no thunderstomp. If the character and mount are the same I then both gets to attack, even if you rolled the character first and killed the enemy (the mount would be attacking at the same moment as the character and so can try to add to overkill).
 

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Does this mean if you're riding a mount and the rider kills the champion the mount (assuming lower Init) doesn't get to attack? First I've heard of this. If the mount can attack, it can attack, including stomp/t-stomp. It's like saying a character with AHW can't use the extra attack if the original attack(s) kill the target.

Are you seriously saying that an Ogre character who kills a unit champion isn't allowed to grind his face in the mud with his foot? And that this wouldn't affect the champion's unit (overkill)?
Yup thats exactly what i'm saying. It even spells out the bit about mounts in the section on Challenges.

Aramoro
 

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ok that settles it. Whoever wrote this edition should NEVER be allowed within spittin' distance of a rulebook project again.
 

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So basically. A chaos lord ontop of a dragon chops the Empire general to bits before his Dragon gets a chance to have ago.

So instead of rampaging through the unit...the dragon just has a bit of a breather/sitdown?
 

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Dark Knight
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So basically. A chaos lord ontop of a dragon chops the Empire general to bits before his Dragon gets a chance to have ago.

So instead of rampaging through the unit...the dragon just has a bit of a breather/sitdown?
yes that right,
 

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ok that settles it. Whoever wrote this edition should NEVER be allowed within spittin' distance of a rulebook project again.
His name is Matt Ward, and I already had this opinion of him before they gave him the new edition to write. Basically, after you see the imbalance he brought to the game by writing the Daemons codex, when his book before that was the underpowered O&G... well, it's obvious that he doesn't think things all the way through.

The fact that a dragon can be rendered useless because a 10 point champion challenged the guy on his back...
 

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should have made it that monster mounts can ignore the challenge and hit whoever they want, get to attack regardless to add overkill or just that if you are on a monstrous (or monster) mount you cant be in challenges at all (my favorite).

Have to say I really dislike Matt Ward's work. The feel of the armies may well be very nice but he just doesn't seem to be able to either think through his rules or grasp the impact of them.
 

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Indeed, The fact you cannot refuse the Challenge either so you Charge with your Dragon, get Challenged by the unit Champ. You get 1 point of Combat Res + 1 for Charging, they get +3 Ranks and a Standard so you lose by 2 - any overkill you get.

Aramoro
 

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I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

Challenges are an advantage/disadvantage for both sides. I'll use a real life example.

Over the weekend my son and I played a game. My Bretonnians vs. his High Elf army. At one point my unit of KotR led by a Lord charged his Dragon with an Elf lord character of some kind on it. He issued a challenge. Being Bretonnian I don't dare refuse it but by doing that he basically took out all of my additional attacks from knights in lance formation.

For free.

What does he give up to avoid the 9 S5 possible hits coming his way? Maybe not getting to use Thunderstomp. I'd say that's a good trade.
 

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OK, so thats an even example... now lets try an uneven example. The remnants of a VC skelly unit overrun into a HE prince on dragon. The skelly champion issues a challenge that the dragon cannot possibly refuse: the prince on top of the dragon is almost certainly going to kill the skellie and cab get a maximum of +4 to combat res (unless he has a magical weapon giving extra attacks). The skellies have charged and have a banner, the 600pt lord did <4 kills... so the skellies can take a maximum of 2 dead so cannot possibly all get killed. Next magic phase the VC player raises 4 more skellies to the unit and challenges again, again the prince is going to win the fight, but get left in combat.
If the prince gets a really bad roll he might only do 1 wound, which means those 4 skellies have just beaten a 600pt lord.

Any case where it is beneficial to do less damage to your opponent is utterly stupid to my mind... but here if you do 1W you lose, while if you really get (un)lucky and get nothing at all then the dragon can step up and easily annihilate the enemy...

Now if the dragon wasn't stopped from attacking: the prince should do an average of ~3 kills (im assuming S6 for a great weapon- why not?), the dragon has 6 S7 attacks, 2D6 S4 breath attacks and D6 S7 thunderstomps... which is a total of about 13 wounds, meaning he can potentially kill his way through a whole block of 20 skellies in a single turn so long as the champ doesnt challenge.
 
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