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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone :)

So let me start by saying this article is intended to offer an opinion on the current setup for black orc warlord grimgor ironhide. The character has seen many changes since his first appearance, and depending on who you ask and their preference of playstyle it could be for the better or worse. In my opinion, the character is flawed. And here is why.

In reading about grimgor, he is not your typical black orc. Black orcs, while of course superior in size and combat skills to their kin, also typically have a sense of calm allowing them to overcome the animosity of lesser orcs. They don't pick fights with each other, and are tacticians on the battle field. Grimgor, however, is not. In describing grimgor, words like calm, or tactical would probably come up last and runner up. In his fluff it is said he is in constant need of a fight. Even stating if he goes one, two, or god help them 3 days without it, the army is in a world of trouble. So, there is no reason he should benefit from the calm tactical approach of black orcs. Second, in all the literature on grimgor, his plan has been consistently simple, find somethin to fight, fight it till it dead, fight it some more, find somethin else to fight. So to me, his rules in his description are far off base.

I think the following changes would more closely resemble the true character of grimgor ironhide.

Change ITP and hatred everyone to Mad Hatred:

Grimgor hates everything and anything in the old world with a remarkable bloodlust forever unquenchable no matter the battle or his combatant. This trait is excessively inspiring to his bodyguard, who follow suit, buying into his blind rage fueled fury making them even more visceral than your average black orc. Grimgor and his unit hate everyone, and have the frenzy special rule, which grimgor can never lose.

(This would make the grimgor and his unit more dangerous in cc (+1 attack) BUT also much easier for an oppenent to control and misdirect.)

Animosity (specific to grimgor and his immortulz)

If at the begining of a turn, grimgor has yet to reach close combat, HE must pass an animosity test. If he fails, proceed as you would for the quell animosity rule. Once grimgor has engaged in close combat, this rule is null.

(This would show the danger of the keeping grimgor out of combat and its negative out come on the army. They run the risk of him chopping them, if they dont get in to find somethin to chop quick enough.)

Ta Be Da Best, Ya gotz ta Beat Da Best

If grimgor is ever in close combat with a unit housing characters, he must declare a challenge, and the most powerful character (highest point total) must accept it, if not grimgor is granted an additional attack, on top of frenzy, for a total of 7, until he fights said character, or all characters in cc have fled or are slain. Grimgor may also never refuse a challenge.

(This represents grimgor's lust for proving himself to gork. He seeks a challenge, and will not be denied. So, if he is denied said challenge, his rage grows, granting him the extra attack to represent him angrily cutting through the enemies his desired opponent is trying to hide behind. So basicaly, if you don't want your character going toe to toe with grimgor, dont bring him near him. That being said, grimgor can also end up biting off more than he can chew, which could serve as a disadvantage to the controlling player.)

All other rules would remain the same as in the AB. This would make this unit a potential juggernaut, and grimgor is given a crucial extra attack, BUT at the cost of losing the control that normaly comes with black orcs and black orc warbosses, as well as potentially a damaging effect on the unit should they be kept out of cc long enough, which again is easier to do now with frenzy being applied. It is also a neat way to give OnG players the 7 potential attacks grimgor originally had but only under certain circumstances, and at the tactical costs mentioned above. So, what do you all think? And what would a fair point cost be as opposed to the AB version? higher? lower? same? Would this do the character more justice, while still remaining fair? I see this as a double edged sword, must more potential damage, at a much higher risk. Which is exactly how i would imagine grimgor ironhide to be. Questions? Comments? All are welcome, and thank you for reading :) WAAAAGGGHHHH
 

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I would'nt include the Animosity rule. He knows hes about to fight so stays calm (for an orc), The challenge rule is also weird and not really the way generic rules are written. Most expensive is a poor metric after all mages are most expensive but their not dead 'ard so why would he want to fight them?

You could do something along the lines of

I'll take you all on! "When issuing challenges, all enemy models capable of accepting challenges may do so against Grimgor, Grimgor can then choose how to divide his attacks between each model before dice are rolled. At least 1 attack must be applied to each enemy, and most attacks must be applied to the enemy model with the highest WS. If no enemy models accept the challenge or no challenge could be issued, Grimgor gains D3 attacks"

Frenzy isn't a big deal as in the current rules its easy to control especially with Grimgors high Ld
 

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frenzy is a bad idea from both perspectives: it makes the unit so much nastier that its kinda crazy, going from 1 S7 attack with a great weapon to 2 is huge. Meanwhile its not the 'forced to charge' aspect of frenzy that's the problem its that if you've beat an enemy you most pursue or overrun. I often throw a couple of cheap chaff units in front of the enemy so they have to charge them (or not move), align to how I want then overrun into the second unit and align again. Its easy to force them to rotate about 90 degrees and give you an easy flank charge... piss easy way that my 'standard' orcs keep beating the typical savage big unz unit that I see everywhere (I have Larry and Barry; 2 solo trolls there for just such a counter).

Giving frenzy and animosity is almost like giving the same thing twice; both are there to make the unit charge (although animosity is far more effective). I think that frenzy is a bit much for that combo but think animosity would be a good thing.... having said that it would need to be an altered animosity table wher they cannot squabble if they are able to charge. Personally I would just make the animostity roll an auto 6 so if they failed animosity they charged the closest unit but with an additional D6 move. It would make them a bit nastier but could potentially screw them by charging chaff when a major threat is available.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Good point on the challenge rule, highest points is a poor mechanic. Although why on earth youd bring a wizard anywhere near grimgor is beyond me, it is a fair point. The take you all on rule is an interesting thought, although id just say perhaps knock it down to the character he is interested in fighting is the one with the highest WS.

Id like to keep the animosity rule as i really do think this is a great representation of his hunger for combat. The auto 6 may be a good resolution to that, very good point. But again even by orc standards grimgor is a raging bloodthirsty lunatic. So i think some sort of animosity should be present until he gets into the fight.

I agree too that frenzy may be a bit much. Especially as he alrdy gives the unit +1ws rerolled to hit on first turn of cc. Pair that with great weapons and thats pretty damn formidable.

So then perhaps drop frenzy entirely from the equation. Keep the animosity until he reaches cc with any fail being an auto 6 on the table. The challenge rule is changed to char with highest weapon skill must accept, or grimgor gains additional attacks. (Kind of undecided between +1 until said character is dead or flees, or +d3 for that turn.)

All in all thanks for the good feedback, im an orc and goblin player myself so ill say my first post may have been a bit op :p
 
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