[geneticdeviant]

I have acquired the codex and really love the fluff and the models but..............


Really don't know where to start.


Can anyone direct me to a detailed Ogre Kingdoms tactica for 8th edition or would some kind person care to post one up?

Many thanks

 

[Whizzwang]

Ogres in 8th are intirguing.

Previous to this edition they have been somewhat lacking. They have some very funky items, cool units and some amazing spells. However, the inability to rank them up in a benficial way (5 wide Ogres is what? 250ish poiints for +1combat res in 7th) gave them a major downside.

In 7th you were looking at maybe 3 or 4 units of 5 ogres in single ranks with Gnoblar blocks flank charging to get you the ranks.


8th has given Ogres the fantastic monsterous ranks, and the ability to use 3 attacks per rank too. This opens up the possibility of fielding insanely hard to remove units of 18, all of which get to attack. That's a crap load of hits.

Stomp is a fantastic new toy for them too. Normally your ogres would steam in, destroy loads and then fall over to static combat res. This should in theory no linger be as big a problem as it was before. You still might feel it against big horde/steadfast armies. but you are annihilating those units in combat.

Staying 3 wide gives you room to move properly without having excessively wide units getting stuck in terrain.

However, that being said I have yet to see an Ogre army in 8th. That aside I would argue Ogres have seen some of the best buffs from the new rules. People just need to look at them through new eyes and see the new things you can accomplish.

 

[ThaPinkPownerFatty]

first its a armybook not a codex :angry::grin:
second why dont you look at the whats new today topic on the gw site a couple weeks ago they had a ogre tacticia for 8the

 

[Putch.]

first its a armybook not a codex :angry::grin:
second why dont you look at the whats new today topic on the gw site a couple weeks ago they had a ogre tacticia for 8the

That "Tactica" Is about a paragraph long, and basically says "Lulz take blocks of ogres, use stomp lulz" REAL Helpful.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Well I havent played many games with my ogres yet and still need to get my own tactics and army sorted out... but having said that I think the tactics will be much much easier to learn in 8th then they were in 7th. In 7th you had lot and lots of little units of ogres running around smacking into flanks/rear but a small mistake could easily lose you an entire unit... make a few of them and the game was over.

For 8th Ive been running a unit of 18 bulls with no equipment at all and basically you cannot go wrong with them. AHW or ironfists just arent worth it when you start ranking ogres up. Hoard units of ogres (6 wide) are terrors but ironguts are too expensive to try it with (although they are funny they are just OTT). I recon units of 18 bulls and ~9 ironguts will be the norm for a lot of ogre armies, but ironguts are no where near as good as they used to be, they are just too squishy for what they do: they'll knife through almost enything, but will get ground down very fast, even by cheap troops.

Other good things include scraplaunchers and gorgers... I would love to use 3 scraplaunchers but that would force me inot having a lot of gnoblar units and the models are enough to push a sane man crazy. They have about 50 bits, that dont fit, constantly fall apart and are impossible to transport... but on the up side they look really really cool. Gorgers are just awsome- I use as many as I can in every game (which is only 2 currently... but if I had 6 and was taking skrag then they would all be in).

 

[ThaPinkPownerFatty]

@tim/steven i thoughed you couldnt have more then twice the same rare choice in a normale army and 3 times the same rare choic in a grand army.

 

[Putch.]

@tim/steven i thoughed you couldnt have more then twice the same rare choice in a normale army and 3 times the same rare choic in a grand army.

Skrag the slaughterer makes Gorgers special, and can be fielded as units of two instead of one. Thus 6 gorgers for special is legal as long as Skrag is fielded.

 

[Tim/Steve]

At 2k you can have 2 gorgers and 3 scraplaunchers... at 3+k you can have 4 gorgers and 6 scraplaunchers (that would be a sight to see).
As Putch says, if you have Skrag gorgers become 2for1 special choices so you can have 6 at 2k and 12 at 3+k, which would be an awesome thing to see (900pts of gorgers FTW). If I had a huge amount of money this would be exactly the sort of thing I would try

Initially for 8th I thought I was going to include a couple of solo maneaters to fill in as extra gorgers, but I just havent found the points for them yet... in larger games, especially 2.5k I reecon I'll start to use them as they're good blocker units and if given brace of handguns can give some long range shooting to an ogre anmy (although most people seem to prefer cathayan longswords).

 

[geneticdeviant]

Okay thanks for all your help guys, much appreciated.

Was thinking of buying up models now so i'm looking for advice on army composition (say 2.5k)

How many units of 18 bulls should i run with?

I Don't want Gnoblars if possible - too small and squishy for an ogre army IMO

What would be good solid units to pick?

If it helps i will play against high elves and vampire counts mostly.


Someone suggested going for an army full of monsters - is this viable?

I'm assuming Skrag plus 6 gorgers would be fantastic from what you said above?

Also you say 9 Ironguts will be the norm, do you recommend these? i'm also assuming they will be in three ranks of three? As they are so squishy, what would be the best way of using these?

 

[Tim/Steve]

LMAO- how many units of 18 bulls? well I would say 1, at over 600 points basic they are very expensive propositions. You could just about squeeze 2 into a 2.5k game, but I dont know how good it would be.

Gnoblars are pretty rubbish, but they are also insanely cheap- a minimum unit of fighters is 20 strong and is still cheaper then 1 irongut (not unit, model), so they make good flanking units, especially if you can keep them near the general. The main reason to take them is because you have to in order to open up the scraplauncher... which is a fantastic unit (and very funny).

Solid Units? Bulls, ironguts and gorgers are basically the solid core to any ogre army... but ironguts arent nearly as vital as in 7th. Gnoblar fighters and scraplaunchers are both pretty good and if you are looking for a bit of fun the slavegiant is always a good option.

You can do a fully monstrous army, and I have done so many times when I simply couldnt be bothered to get the gnoblar out of my case, but the only 'monster' in the OK book is the slavegiant (alright, and Gresus.. but WTH is that about?). You dont lose anything vital but not including gnoblar, and if you dont own a scraplauncher then it really doesnt matter too much either way. One of the best things about gnoblar is peope see a huge unit and target them, then find out the unit they just spent a turn killing costs <100pts.

I would avoid skrag to be honest- he is fun and make gorgers work even better then normal, but special characters for ogres really arent needed and I'ld advise just getting to know the standard army first.

Yeah, my ironguts have been in units of ~9 in 3 ranks of 3 so far. I normally add in a character so I can lose 4 ogres before I start losing attacks- you really need those spare guys in this edition... ogres die really quickly. To protect them you are basically looking at gut magic, but thats really tricky to keep in play long enough to see the benefits of now. It requires a lot of practics (I'm still making stupid errors with mine).

 

[geneticdeviant]

Okay so

one unit of 18 bulls

one big unit of Gnoblars or would two units be better?

2 Gorgers

3 Scrap Launchers

Unit of 9 iron guts (which character would you add to these?)

A Tyrant

A butcher


From what your saying these i'm assuming are the most solid choices?

 

[Tim/Steve]

A big unit of bulls is my personal favorite- its mean and will go through almost anything but if the enemy gets a purple sun or pit of shades off into the middle of your unit you'll lose it... but I think its worth it.

Gnoblar numbers change for me. I own 40, and have been using them in 1 unit for 8th (previously they would be min 20 units), although I rarely have all 80 in the list: they are fillers, I try to leave 50-80pts free in my list and however many I have after everything else goes in gets pumped into gnoblars- means I should never have more then 1pt spare in my army.

3 scrap launchers are an issue... well 3 actually. 1- you need 3 units of gnoablrs (either fighters or trappers) to take 3 scrap launchers, which is a pain. 2- they are just about the most costly unit ogre have. 3- I own 1 of them and as much as I love it I want to take a hammer to it... if I had 3 I would be a blubbing heap of flesh on the floor; my spirit would have completely broken. They are the absolute most annoying GW model to put together, and cannot remain in 1 piece if someone so much as thinks about moving it.
Having 3 would be awesome in game, but Im happy with my 1...

A tyrant is a must, he's a little killier then a bruiser and the extra 50points of magic items are nice... but its the +1Ld that you get him for. Believe me when I say that even with that boost to Ld you still fail plenty. Which brings me onto my second point- take a BSB. Ogres Ld isnt great, so rerolls on everything Ld based is awesome. As for the butcher, I would take a slaughtermaster instead. Its an extra 70pts for +2 to cast and dispel (and its the dispel you'll want it for) but a 12" range on his buff spells is also great, 6" is basically 2 units- the unit you are in and the 1 unit to teh side you've put your butcher on... it can be enough, but often isnt.
My favorite build of Tyrant comes in at 306pts, so in the new rules I need to drop 6pts in order to fit a basuc slaughtermaster (hitting 500pts bang on)... but if you play 2.5k or 3k the ogres start to come alive and you can tool up your tyrant, take a slaughtermaster with some decent equipment and be happy... add to that a BSB and maybe a butcher as a spare/lure caster and you'll be sorted. I wouldn't bother with more then 4 characters unless you are playing an absolutely huge game (4k+ for example).

 

[geneticdeviant]

What are your thoughts on leadbelchers, yhetis and maneaters?

Should i find places for these in my army?

 

[Tim/Steve]

I HATE leadbelchers... and they hate me. Most ogre players like them and find a use for them, but whenever I use them they only ever A- miss and B- kill themselves. I would never take them (mine have long been in the cupboard), but at the same time I admit that Im biased...

Yhetees used to be a standard in my army because they got the 3D6 overrun and the longer charge rate (plus ignoring terrain), but in 8th there is just no reason to take them. About their only use now is if you know you're playing a massively ethereal army... if if you are you've lost anyway... ogres just dont have the offensive magic or magic weapons available to take that them out.

Maneaters are an odd one, a lot of ogre players are taking units of 3-4 of them with cathayan longswords... and they make a nasty unit with 12-16 WS5 I4 S5AP attacks plus a possible bull charge and stomp, but they are no harder to kill then ironguts (other then higher WS) so a few shooty units will kill them incredibly quickly. I'm intending to use single maneaters as apprentice gorgers, to block the enemy and if I equip them with brace of handguns then they will give me some long range firepower to stop the enemy leaving his mages out in the open (ogres want to force mages into uniuts, so you can kill them when you get into combat).


Basically, all 3 units can work for you, not they arent 'needed' to make a good army in the way that bulls and gorgers are, so if you liek them go for them... but try not to be tempted by huge units of maneaters, they eat up points faster then you would believe possible(but are great fun in legendary battles).

 

[geneticdeviant]

Okay so im contemplating getting two ogre kingdoms battalion boxes to start my army which will provide all the gnoblars and most of the bulls i need.

In addition i was going to get extra box of Bulls, Ironguts, and leadbelchers (i know you hate them Tim/Steve but if most ogre players like them i should try them).

Also was going to pick up 2 gorgers, a scraplauncher, and 4 maneaters (you cant beat the ninja and pirate maneater ogres lol).

For my lords/heroes i was going to get a Tyrant, a butcher, and a second butcher model to make up as a slaughtermaster.

This will give me:

Three characters, one tyrant, a butcher and slaughtermaster.

A unit of leadbelchers and a scrap launcher

A large unit of Gnoblars

A unit of 18 Bulls

A unit of 4 Maneaters

A unit of Ironguts

2 Gorgers


Is there anything else i should be considering getting.


From the above can someone suggest an effective army list at 2500 points?

 

[Tim/Steve]

If you buy 1 battalion you'll have all the leadbelchers you ever need... so with 2 battalions you certainly wont need to buy any more individually. When I do use mine I either go for 2*2 or a unit of 3 (either way with a champion- only unit that always gets one- its enormously helpful with wound allocation). I only use 4 and even when I come round to the idea that they cant be as bad as I remember I still never think of using more.

Maneaters are great models and I suggest you get them all. There are only 6 different ones (araby, ninja, pirate, female, paymaster and empire) and they all look really great, though I tend to make more use of them as bruisers then I do as maneaters: I use the female as my 'matron' (tyrant) since she almost always carries the tenderiser (you know its right ) and the paymaster as a paymaster (BSB) since no ogre would dare run away with their payment on the line. Occasionally the araby maneater gets used as a challenge monkey since his ironfist means he has a pretty decent armour save, although it does annoy me that 1/6 maneater models is armed in a way that mens he cannot ever be used WYSIWYG (there is no ironfist option for maneaters).
My standard unit is pirate, ninja and empire/female when I run maneaters. I say the ninja has got throwing stars (which he does) which count as a brace of handguns so have 4 S4AP shots a turn but am still backed up by S7... although other players would just take cathayan longswords and charge into combat (I do the same normally- the shooting is just to persaude mages to stay inside units so I can trap them in combat).

I suggest you get a slavegiant as well at some point- they arent the best unit around but they are good fun, and they will do very large amounts of damage to almost everything (plus falling over is now supurb- S6 no save D3 wound hits on everything under the template). You'ld be surprised just how big the grims both players wear when a slavegaint picks up the enemy general and puts him down his pants- a very ignoble end :laugh: Plus now he can thunderstomp, so the most likely outcome of being in a fight is 2D6 S6 hits on the enemy, which is fairly nasty (and should see him through most units around that dont have characters in). He is nice and cheap as well, so although not as good as other giants in ocmbat he does make the best bullet magnet out of any giant (they draw an inordinate amount of shooting/magic).

Other then that you are pretty much sorted, and would have an army similar in size to mine (although mine is a little more fleshed out). Hunters, trappers, Skrag and yhetees are all good fun in their own way, but they arent really needed to make an army... in fact other then Skrag I think they would only weaken most people's armies.