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Remember, Vulkan is broken, insane and not thinking. He is focused on hitting Kurze. His tactics and most of his skill have gone right out the window and he is lumbering around charging like a mad bull.
Oh no, I completely understand the situation and it makes sense for Vulkan to act the way he does. I just think it is such a weak gimmick that storytellers abuse these days as a "reset button." I just believe there were sooooo many possible avenues to explore that would have been much more intriguing then amnesia... Especially for such a prominent character as a Primarch, and double on the fact that its a Primarch until just RECENTLY was completely missing and unknown about post-Isstvan V. Just poor decision making when it came to fleshing out his character arc.:(
 

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The more and more I sit here and think about the novel, the more I'm convinced this was such a huge missed opportunity... I personally was completely intrigued by the perpetual plot line when it was introduced in Legion. But I think they should have just left it at Grammaticus and Oll Persson, and left any other mention of other perpetuals as just fond memories between them during any rare conversations they have. The idea of just how rare and special the perpetuals were is one of the things that made them so cool and exciting. I'm always drawn back to a statement by ADB about how he hates in sci fi, there is this infinitely large universe, and some how every plot character seems to know each other or is connected in some way. Going from having never heard of this perpetual phenomenon, to now in a few books having so many, just is jarring and unpleasant.

And considering Vulkan... Ugh.... Is it really necessary to keep killing him so fucking much?? Like I get they like to experiment with different ways to kill a Primarch now that they technically can... But Jesus that shit is stupid and boring.... It just destoryed any mental image I had of Vulkan prior to these last two books. I was quite fond of my Vulkan who loved worthless humans, yet when pissed off was the first one to start chucking mother fucking tanks lol. Now he is just a stumbling fool who is only capable of getting in the way of bullets... I was actually pretty cool with the whole immortal twist for Vulkan, but I would have actually liked to see him "last seen" stuck in a torture device in Curze/Perturabo's dungeon. And just left the location undisclosed so that he could still be around in the 40k, for if they ever decide to bring some loyalist Primarchs back.
Sigh.....I just finished the book and it was a good read I enjoyed it but this story and vulkan lives just killed vulkan in my eyes. My thoughts are pretty much the same as yours brother. This book also made me remember why I do not like the "socially awkward" Lion at all!But overall I would give the book a 8/10 it was interesting that Roboute looked up to the Lion, I was under the impression he thought he was the best of them all.
 

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Unremebered Empire

Ooo sarcasm. That was witty and unexpected.


Ok in order;

Turn Titan armour to paste?? Yeah no that's way too much. Primarchs can turn Titan armour into paste with their fists and weapons, so in that case what the hell are they wasting their time with anti-titan weapons then. Just send in the Primarch and have him cut the legs to pieces. And if they can kill God-Machines like that then a Greater Daemon or an Avatar would be absolutely no match, they could just bitch-slap either of them and kill them like that. Obviously you prefer the invincible MDK Primarchs that even an Avatar would shudder at facing, but I prefer the Primarchs that are god-like in battle but can be killed if you fight them the right way.

Tougher than Terminator armour?? In that case why not just go into battle with only a loin-cloth, that way they won't be slowed down by that all that unnecessary armour. Too much.

Same for the Fulgrim part. Too much.

I remember that scene and Corax was fully armoured at the time. And this is of course the fastest Primarch on an open battlefield with a jump-pack. Not a cornered Primarch in ceremonial armour in a tight space that there is very little room to manuever in and without a means of escape or a weapon.

At what point were grenades enough?? The Alpha Legion Kill-Team was aiming to kill him with a hail of bolter shots, which I add would more than likely be rounds designed to pierce heavily armoured targets, and only used grenades to flush him out.


Plated in armour he looted from Guilliman's museum. Patch-work armour that would not be very good, and regenerating life is not the same as regenerating flesh. I don't care if you agree or not, i'm just stating an alternate interpretation.

No what C.S Goto did in his novels is "taking liberties with the settting." What Abnett does here is called an interpretation and every author is entitled to do that.



I don't really see anything in that narration that would imply that just because Vulkan is resurrecting faster means he is regenerating faster. Vulkan is dying and coming back faster, but his wounds are not fully healing and by the time his wounds do start to heal quicker, when Narek blows part of his head off, he is killed repeatedly in a short space of time following that because his mind cannot think of tactics, only charging forward to kill, and thus he is prevented from regenerating fully to fight Curze again.

Corax = Fastest Primarch. Vulkan = Slowest. The Salamanders gene-seed actually does state that the Salamanders have slower reflexes than other Astartes, and I think it's fair to say that Corax is obviously faster than him.


Ultimately I prefer Abnett's interpretation of the Primarchs from Know No Fear and The Unremembered Empire. And Swallow's Sanguinius in Fear to Tread as well. The Primarchs are strong, some of the strongest beings alive, but they are not invulnerable and have been toned down from the earlier novels when their descriptions would imply that there is nothing else in creation on their level. And it also never actually states how long it took Guilliman to kill those Alpha Legionnaires, only that in his mind it felt like hours, which means that it could have been anywhere from 20 seconds to 1 minute. 10 Astartes dead in around 20 seconds, that is still damn good and better than most could do.


LotN
Totally agree with LotN on this one
No primarch was built the same as eacher other will all having different strengths and weaknesses
I actually think that after reading the book that all of the primarchs that are in it have been given a bit more depth to there character except maybe for Sanguis as there is very little he is involved with un till the end
Really enjoyed the way Guilliman is potrayed as already thinking about what the outcome would be should the emperor and Terra fall to Horus. This shows that is perhaps the finest thinker, strategist that we know he becomes, and this out of all of the Primarchs


Guilliman- on
 

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On the issue of how tough primarchs are I quite liked the stuff with Guilliman and the Alpha Legion, and I'd prefer if they came across more vulnerable like he did there. Lorgar getting blasted by a titan and ending up in a crater still alive was just absurd. I like primarchs to be able to kick arse in a big way and be strategic masters oozing charisma, but I want to feel they could be killed in an actual tabletop 40k game.
 

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On the issue of how tough primarchs are I quite liked the stuff with Guilliman and the Alpha Legion, and I'd prefer if they came across more vulnerable like he did there. Lorgar getting blasted by a titan and ending up in a crater still alive was just absurd. I like primarchs to be able to kick arse in a big way and be strategic masters oozing charisma, but I want to feel they could be killed in an actual tabletop 40k game.
And this is one of the main reasons why there will always be criticisms of the Heresy novels, because everyone has different perspectives on what the limits of a Primarch's capabilities should be.

Personally, I think Lorgar standing up to a titan via psychic means was entirely plausible (as I think every single Primarch portrayal throughout the entire series has been plausible). But then, it doesn't really matter how I justify it or what I think because inevitably people will disagree based on their own interpretations of a Primarch's capabilities, and that's absolutely fine. The only solution is that people accept this variety of opinion among both the fan base and the authors and the inconstant portrayals of the Primarchs between novels.
 
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Chaos triumphs!

I enjoyed both Vulcan Lives And unremembered empire, especially the part where Gulliman killed 10 Alpha Legion in about 3 seconds, while unarmed and surprised. What was more of a surprise was that Aeonid Thiel, " the censured" appeared to be dead. From what we've been told of Alpha legion infiltration they attach the dead faces of their victims to their own. I would dearly love to know how they managed to take thiels face..

Curze did kill a lot of dark angels and ultramarines, but he was in his element. Remember he had his ass handed to him last time he went up against the lion in a one to one. The ultramarines didnt stand a chance, because they could not think like him, unlike the wolves and the scars who handled themselves well.

I was pleased to see vulcans character development in this unremembered empire, he was cool in vulkan lives, but lacked that skinless-flaming-giant-hammer wielding-undead-Demi-god thing. Good move by abnett, hope to see more of him in the future. Apparently he is stronger than Angron. Lols.

No one is stronger than angron. Angron digs himself from under toppled cities, and flips titans over live toys. He has two chain axes, and is red all over. I think the lesson to learn from this book, like all other 40k books is athat Angron is the best primach, he will make a throne from your scull.

Blood for the blood god.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter #88
I enjoyed both Vulcan Lives And unremembered empire, especially the part where Gulliman killed 10 Alpha Legion in about 3 seconds, while unarmed and surprised. What was more of a surprise was that Aeonid Thiel, " the censured" appeared to be dead. From what we've been told of Alpha legion infiltration they attach the dead faces of their victims to their own. I would dearly love to know how they managed to take thiels face..

Apparently he is stronger than Angron. Lols.

No one is stronger than angron. Angron digs himself from under toppled cities, and flips titans over live toys. He has two chain axes, and is red all over. I think the lesson to learn from this book, like all other 40k books is athat Angron is the best primach, he will make a throne from your scull.

Blood for the blood god.
Not really, remember how 'Thiel' won't take his helmet off? He won't show his face to Guilliman, so I'm pretty sure Thiel is ok.

As for Vulkan being stronger, why not? In one novel he might be described as being so, Ferrus in another, Mortarion perhaps in another and sometimes Angron. They all have their own opinions on the matter. You can't say for any certainty, though I for one would say Vulkan and Ferrus would probably tie for top place.
 

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There are contendors for Best (insert quality here) among all the Primarchs, no Primarch is singly better than all the others. Examples;

Strongest Primarch: Angron, Vulkan, Leman Russ.
Fastest Primarch: Jaghatai Khan, Corvus Corax.
Smartest Primarch: Magnus the Red, Roboute Guilliman, Alpharius Omegon.
Stealthiest Primarch: Konrad Curze, Corvus Corax.
Most Enduruable Primarch: Perturabo, Mortarion.
Best Tactician: Alpharius Omegon, Roboute Guilliman, Lion El'Jonson.
Most Inspiring: Sanguinius, Horus Lupercal, Lorgar Aurelian.
Best Crafter: Ferrus Manus, Vulkan.

The Primarchs were designed to be good at nearly everything, true some are better than others at certain things, i.e Corvus Corax is obviously better at stealth than Vulkan and Sanguinius is clearly more inspiring than Konrad Curze, but no Primarch can be considered the best at anything because there is always at least one other Primarch that could be considered as good or better.


LotN
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter #93
A: Where is this info from?
B: Thanks for the spoilers, I just love reading them, seriously, I really do love it when something gets spoiled for me. Do you have any more?
C: I'm disinclined to believe they will reveal what actually occurred on Eskrador.
 

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Thanks for the spoilers, I just love reading them, seriously, I really do love it when something gets spoiled for me. Do you have any more?
A: Ok man, i could give you spoilers (about How loyal legions will get to Terra, or what will happen to Malorghast and Angel of Rage etc. etc.) - but just if you will not be so sarcastic and inclined to moke me.
B: If you want -

C: If you do not want to believe this - just dont, simply do not read my posts.
Remember our discussion about Scars? So choose to believe or not.

 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter #95
What aren't your getting? Don't just smash spoilers out because you can, it's all you seem to do here, jump into threads and yell out your spoilers without any real regard over whether people want to know them or not. If you remember our conversation before, you'll remember how I told you how it looks, others agreed. You still come across with this superior sort of attitude, because you get to these events, say you talk to all these authors, you just can't seem to resist yelling out to everyone how you know what's going to happen, how you own something before others. So many of your posts essentially boil down to 'Hint Hint! I know!' or to that effect.

So no, fuck off with your spoilers, make your own 'spoiler for everyone' thread for all I care, but stop posting them on other threads.

As for Eskrador, you clearly have no idea what I was referring to. Go look it up, i'd hate to have to school you on here, because believe me, you may have all your little BL Weekenders and author interviews to tell you what might happen or is going to happen in the future of the series. But I know all there is to know about the lore as it stands. I realise this makes me sound pretty arrogant, but fuck it, I can back it up and have done on here for a long time.

Bottom line again though. Spoilers.
 

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What aren't your getting?
Ok that's my point too. Seems you are quick to anger and think you have a monopoly to threads? I do not want escalation. So lets stop here.

I'm not jumping to threads - i wrote dozen of posts this weeks - and they were concrete and informal.

Let's get back to 'The Unremembered Empire, Spoilers abound' conversation
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter #97
Ok that's my point too. Seems you are quick to anger and think you have a monopoly to threads? I do not want escalation. So lets stop here.

I'm not jumping to threads - i wrote dozen of posts this weeks - and they were concrete and informal.

Let's get back to 'The Unremembered Empire, Spoilers abound' conversation
No I just despise spoilers, which are still apparent in your above post. Wrap them up like you would wrap your cock up when diving into a Bratislavan whorehouse. Spoiler tags, spoiler tags everywhere, if you think it might be a spoiler, tag it, not sure, tag it, no one will get upset over spoiler tags around something that isn't a spoiler, the reverse is as fully demonstrated by myself, not the same.

Get spoiler tags sorted. End of discussion.
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Discussion Starter #99
Done. Why do you british, so easy to rage?

We didn't take over a third of the world by being nice. Which can also be cited as reason why we now don't own a third of the world.

:read: You do know what is the name of this thread: 'The Unremembered Empire, Spoilers abound'
Yes, I made it, spoilers about The Unremembered Empire, I'm gonna go right ahead and give you a facepalm for that and then despite being an atheist, get down on my knees and pray to Odin that you weren't possibly being serious.
 

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Anakwanar. Spoiler tag any further "Inside info" that you get. We do not want to be perusing the threads and see a massive spoiler in plain sight. Anything that is future in the Horus Heresy that you know, and I don't think you do and what you put about Omegon and Alpharius is a guess on your part, you put in a spoiler tag.


LotN
 
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