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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I've been looking at 8th and really wondering just how to make my WE work... apparently so has everyone else since WE have been universally thought of as the weakest army about (along with Brets) but I've been having some thoughts and the result has left me with something of a sneaky smile on my face.


So, this is the combo Im thinking of:

250- spellweaver- Lv4 (life/beasts)
127- Noble- Shrieking Blade, Charmed Shield, Moonstone of Hidden Ways
499- 38 Glage Guard- banner, Aech (no min stand + shoot distance), musician
GG+Noble in 1 unit, spellweaver is the general and is running around close by (or can hide inside too).

So, being a WE I can deploy 1 forest in my deployment zone at the start of the game... which since it now has to be deployment zone rather then table half I thought that was pretty useless, but I was wrong. :p Instead I can set up the forest so the glade guard can go right in the middle of it (although I'll be a little too wide (hoard) it'll still give me light cover (and you can shoot out of a terrain feature without penalty)- pumping out 29 shots a turn.
When the enemy gets close the unit can do a swift reform at Ld9 to be 5 models wide and if successful can still shoot (without penalty- WEs ignore move&shoot -1). That means Im likely to be steadfast against any enemy (and stil have 24 shots for stand&shoot) and if my noble survives I can teleport out of combat using the moonstone- he is the only character/champ in the unit so if Im challenged (I play WoC a lot) I can decline and he goes to the back of the unit and must survive the turn, alternately he ignores the first enemy hit against him (and if the enemy fails their fear test then they'll be WS1 anyway vs both him and the unit).

So alone the unit is likely to survive and escape, but the lv4 spellweaver is close by and either has life spells to try to give the unit T5 and 5+ regen (mebbe T7, 4+ regen if the enemy forget to dispel trhone of vines) and use awakening of the wood after the moonstone removes the elves or go for my personal choice of beasts: wyssan's wilform is great for aiding survival and doing a little more damage but curse of anraheir is the real killer: -1 to hit and all terrain is dangerous on a roll of 1 or 2. So if Im charged then the enemy get 24 stand and shoot S4 shots (presumably) and then 1in3 of the models that enter the wood the GG are sitting in will die from dangerous terrain (and possibly making the noble T6 to aid surviva wouldnt hurt).



So, thats almost 900pts of my army drawing the enemy deep into the centre of my force... shooting the hell out of the enemy the whole way and then when you finally do reach me the GG should be hard to kill and it might be suicide to charge them... and then they'll teleport away so long as there is another forest on the (73% chance that there will be) and that the noble has survived (gotta hope for forced challenge), but both life/beasts magic can make him very very hard: beasts could make him S8 T7 A6 even before equipment.
After the unit has gone it should be safe for the rest of the game (its hard to suddenly redeploy and destroy a unit that size appearing away from your main destructive units), the spellweaver can just march away and either life/beasts can laugh at enemy untits standing in woods (either with awakening of the wood or curse of anraheir). This is especially effective since all you need in the new rules is to have +100VPs on your opponent to win, so if you can stop yourself losing lots of points while killing the small, cheap enemy units then you'll win.


A good alternative to using the noble is to just use the spellweaver and try to get transformation of kadon on the turn before the enemy charges, then you are going to survive the combat and can just end the spell and use the moonstone in your next moevemtn phase.
 

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That looks like a very brilliant set of ideas, hopefully i will work this out before the wood elf players i know can read this and then paint some more elves.

whizband is right, all the guys i know that play woodsies use almost only treekin/treemen and cavalry
 

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As long as you ignore the terrain generator as there's a high probability that some of the woods you try to teleport into may end up killing a fair few of your troops as it seems that the warhammer world is mostly made up of poisonous or carniverous woods in this edition.
That aside I'd like to see this tactic treid out and it's always nice to see someone trying to adjust rather than just complain
 

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Really interesting take on it Tim/Steve, certainly looks like a beast for an enemy to deal with. my only concern would be that it is a magic magnet yet doesnt have a great deal of magic defence (aside from the spellweaver). i would be tempted to try and squeeze an MR talisman onto the noble, just to help against magic missles and the like that come your way

but that isnt a big concern really, hope it works for you! just hope your opponent never gets an irresistible dwellers beneath off against it....
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I used a smaller version of this today- only 20 glade guard with a waywatcher noble and a bare spellweaver in 1k vs orks. I lost the game but through no fault of the tactics: I rolled badly for spells (needed the amber spear) and then kept miscasting... suiciding a 250pt character turn 2 of a 1k game is pretty much game over. Still, my GGs and noble survived unscratched while the orks only had 3boyz, a 1W lord lv ork shaman and a BO BSB. I had the moral victory though- he ran away (even using WAAAGHH to get out of my range).

I had my waywatcher noble so he could join either the waywatchers or the glade guard- if I was playing against someone that my waywatchers would have pincushioned I would have moonstoned them over into range and laughed, but as it stood he went into the GGs and did indeed teleport away from the orks in the 2nd turn (the orks had used WAAGHH. march and the WAAAGHH spell)- it was a good showing of tactics, but luck was against me (none of my spells were worthwhile and I blew up). I might have to go back to life magic rather then beasts, but I'll give it 1-2 more games on beasts.

I'm not sure about the unit of 38 GGs will work since they won't fit into the free 6" forest (unless I stay in the combat for a few turns to waste some time and then try to teleport out... but its likely the noble would be killed). I might have to split the unit just to try to keep it working... again more playtesting is needed. As for a bit of mathhammer; 28 is the most elves I can fit inside a 6" diameter forest (5*5 unit with 3 sitting behind in the centre)- mebbe I'll split 10 off into a secong unit and keep my tactics :p

As for magical defence... Im not too worried. Magic flying at my GGs is better then it going into anything else (glade riders, dryads, treeman, waywatchers and mebbe wardancers soon) so I dont mind attracting it to the GGs. And if someone does cast an irrisistable dwellers on them then they're dead.. but then so is every other large unit of S3 models... and I think there will be a lot of units far large then mine in 8th.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Its just a standard wood for now. While all woods on a WFB table start as mysterious if you set up properly that is only because the terrain table only includes mysterious forests, so you cant get a standard one... but the WE book says that you get a forest, not a mysterious forest.
 

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Been thinking of a few combinations with the army, and this has so far come to be one of my favourite -

Spellweaver, Level 4, Lore of Life, Book of Ashur, Hail of Doom Arrow
Highborn, Rhymer's Harp, Sword of Battle, Enchanted Shield, Light Armour

Battle Standard Bearer, Ariels Standard, Annoyance of Netlings, Waywatcher Kindred
Spellsinger, Level 2, Lore of Beasts, Feedback Scroll

70 Eternal Guard, Full Command, Razor Banner

Okay, the Mages hopefully get themselves Throne of Vines, Flesh to Stone and Wyssan's Wild Form. Combined, this unit now has 50+ S8 Attacks, with a -6 to Armour Saves. With Regrowth, the unit is looking at replenishing about 4 lost models a turn, in addition to healing the Lord, who himself is striking with 5 S8 Attacks, ignoring almost all armour. Finish that combat phase of with a Shield of Thorns, there's another 2D6 attacks.

Against return attacks, the unit has a T8, 5+ Armour Save, and depending on whether the enemy has flaming attacks or not, a 4+ Regeneration (from Earth Blood), or 5+ Ward Save. Against spells, I have a 4+ Ward Save.

The BSB has the Lethal Shot Special Rule. Nothing major, but it's enough to get Killing blow on something. It's more than earnt it's points back in games, and with 3 S8 Attacks himself, he's not too shabby. People do find it strange when he accepts challenges though - but that's mainly to shield him, funnily enough. The Netlings do their job - most Lords get 1 attack through - at which point, T8 is good enough to handle it.

Lastly, the Lifebloom allows me to quickly heal any characters suffering from too much damage.

Combine the Lords killing power with the Savage Beast of Horros, and he now has 8 S10 Attacks, with a -9 to Armour Saves - even the Lord of Khorne on a Juggernaut and Enchanted Shield can't get lower than that (-1 = 8). Alternatively, utilising the power of the Rhymers Harp, I can quickly move myself through a wood on the side of the battlefield, and "The Amber Spear" cannon ball an enemy horde or cavalry unit in the flank.

A reroll Ld10 will mean the unit will be staying right where I put it.

A lot of that list is down to chance, of course, though.

T/S - would you be interested in working to make a Wood Elf army Homebrew? I'd had some ideas to bring them in line, but it seems the only way to make them work is to play them as they "shouldn't" be played, in a sense - i.e Phalanx's and Gunlines.



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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Im not a great one for homebrew- I tend to be good at wishlisting, but creating a balanced army would probably be an issue... I certainly dont mind lending a hand or being a sounding board for any ideas you may have though.

As for the list... it sounds ok, although I saw a similar army trounced yesterday when it should have been stronger all round (HE with 50-60 LSG, Teclis, Caradryan, Korhil, BSB and 4 RBTs at 2k).
As a major point- the BSB cannot have any kindreds so cannot be a waywatcher... that annoys the crap outta me since I want a BSB to go running with my wardancers or waywatchers... but also means its impossible to get a BSB and drycha in the same army since its impossible to forest spirit the BSB.

My tactics are gradually evolving as I get more experience of WE in 8th and as I get more units. Currently Im using a solid core of glade guard to lure the enemy, glade riders and waywatchers to mess up the enemy advance and wardancers to do the real dmaage, hopefully flanking the enemy as they advance on my GGs. Ancient Treeman is in there too hoping to hold up the enemy (preferably in a challenge) while the wardancers manouver for the kill. I have had to lose the spellweaver for now though, at least until I hit 2.5k (but then with either beasts.life she just wasnt working for me).
 
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