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Pre-heresy? Where's that from? Not questioning it, just curious.
Always question ;).

It's from Battle of Gate Forty-Two. It occurred after Horus's rise to Warmaster but before he was turned to Chaos.

Horus used the combined might of the Luna Wolves, Space Wolves, Iron Warriors, and the Raven Guard to crush a human rebellion on some formerly compliant worlds. Horus had all four Legions blitz the enemy "lair", as it is described. The quick war was done in hopes of protecting the infrastructure of the systems against a long-term war.

Corax felt it was unwise to use his troops in such a blunt matter...Horus and Perturabo thought otherwise. The attack went through. Corax lost a lot of men in a style of war he really didn't like.

He swore he'd never serve under Horus again.
 

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Always question ;).

It's from Battle of Gate Forty-Two. It occurred after Horus's rise to Warmaster but before he was turned to Chaos.

Horus used the combined might of the Luna Wolves, Space Wolves, Iron Warriors, and the Raven Guard to crush a human rebellion on some formerly compliant worlds. Horus had all four Legions blitz the enemy "lair", as it is described. The quick war was done in hopes of protecting the infrastructure of the systems against a long-term war.

Corax felt it was unwise to use his troops in such a blunt matter...Horus and Perturabo thought otherwise. The attack went through. Corax lost a lot of men in a style of war he really didn't like.

He swore he'd never serve under Horus again.
Just read up on it on Lexicanum- interesting :good:
 

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Craw-Daddy
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I sometimes wish characters in 40k fluff would die in more banal and realistic ways than they always do. Someone might go ahead and post examples of that, but by and large any significant named character in a book will almost certainly die at the hands of an enemy character of equal or greater rank than themselves. Almost always in combat too. I realise it makes a better story for a major character to die on the blade of their nemesis, but just for once could someone die to, say, an orbital barrage; massed lasgun fire; mortar shells; waves of charging hormagaunts; tau overwatch; a vector striking FMC; the blast of a battle cannon etc. Maybe a bolt pistol shot in the face.

It's a bit like primarch fights where you know neither of them die at that moment. It can be fun to read but it kills the suspense a bit when you can be sure the lone marine captain surrounded by 1,000,000 orks can't possibly die because the ork warboss isn't there to kill him.



Pre-heresy? Where's that from? Not questioning it, just curious.
Its been mentioned a few times. Raven's Flight is a pretty good source about Corax, his view of Horus, the Imperium, and some of the traitor Primarchs like Perturabo and especially Angron. In fact, I liked his view of Angron and his view of him the most.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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Always question ;).

It's from Battle of Gate Forty-Two. It occurred after Horus's rise to Warmaster but before he was turned to Chaos.

Horus used the combined might of the Luna Wolves, Space Wolves, Iron Warriors, and the Raven Guard to crush a human rebellion on some formerly compliant worlds. Horus had all four Legions blitz the enemy "lair", as it is described. The quick war was done in hopes of protecting the infrastructure of the systems against a long-term war.

Corax felt it was unwise to use his troops in such a blunt matter...Horus and Perturabo thought otherwise. The attack went through. Corax lost a lot of men in a style of war he really didn't like.

He swore he'd never serve under Horus again.
Cool. Someone else gave a reference before I could answer! :good:
 

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The fact that Horus represented the vision and ambition of the Imperium, the fall basically allowed them to push forth their own thoughts after the Heresy.
In The First Heretic we see Corax describing the Imperium as "the perfect Order." I don't think Corax hated the Imperium by any stretch of the imagination.

His conversation with the Emperor in Deliverance Lost further reinforces this point.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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In The First Heretic we see Corax describing the Imperium as "the perfect Order." I don't think Corax hated the Imperium by any stretch of the imagination.

His conversation with the Emperor in Deliverance Lost further reinforces this point.
That doesn't mean he didn't have problems with it. Corax definitely disliked the Imperium. The only part that really showed any appreciation of the Emperor and the Imperium was the fact that it gave them "purpose." That could further be implied with what he called "the perfect order." There was a big discussion years ago in our forums about Primarchs and their culture being problems with the Imperium. It's nothing new, but I think where you at least don't see a problem with Primarch's getting along with the Imperium, there is definitely a response within the legion. The Dark Angels for example seemed to fit that bill pretty well.
 

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From the conversation between Corax and Lorgar in The First Heretic and the Emperor and Corax in Deliverance Lost, I can not see anything but admiration for the Emperor and His Imperium. Not unless Corax had a weird suicide wish, anyway.

Could you provide me with some citations where Corax shows he only cares about the Imperium as nothing more than something to unite mankind?
 

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I sometimes wish characters in 40k fluff would die in more banal and realistic ways than they always do. Someone might go ahead and post examples of that, but by and large any significant named character in a book will almost certainly die at the hands of an enemy character of equal or greater rank than themselves. Almost always in combat too. I realise it makes a better story for a major character to die on the blade of their nemesis, but just for once could someone die to, say, an orbital barrage; massed lasgun fire; mortar shells; waves of charging hormagaunts; tau overwatch; a vector striking FMC; the blast of a battle cannon etc. Maybe a bolt pistol shot in the face.

It's a bit like primarch fights where you know neither of them die at that moment. It can be fun to read but it kills the suspense a bit when you can be sure the lone marine captain surrounded by 1,000,000 orks can't possibly die because the ork warboss isn't there to kill him.



Pre-heresy? Where's that from? Not questioning it, just curious.

Rynn's world, three of the main characters die to no-boss-cause of death. The chief Librarian and High chaplain die when a malfunctioning defence missile blows up the fortress monestary and the Captain of the 2ed Company dies when holding of a horde of orks. He dies to the sheet number.
 

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bolters design: It's too outdated looking, I'd prefer it to be bigger and look a little more hefty, it looks like an mp5 in size comparison on a Space Marine. Also it needs a stock. You shoot a rifle without a stock and tell me how accurate you are.
I do prefer the post, what was it, 2000? 2005? Where they introduced the slimmer, taller Bolter. The thing is the Bolter used to have a stock on the old weapon sprues. And there is plenty of artwork depicting stocks on Bolters. I do think with the increased strength and bones of a Marine, coupled with the power armour they probably don't NEED stocks. Also SM's are meant to be shock troops, up close and personal, tearing the guts out of the enemy army. I don't think you need a stock to place accurate body shots on an enemy at 30m when you're a 2m tall power armour wearing superhuman.


I so agree with calling BS on Marine loss rates. While you will always lose some in combat it should be more akin to fighting the blind school. I agree the enemies of the Imperium are also good, but if an IG army doesn't get wiped out to a man in seconds then against the same enemies a squad of SM should stomp all over them. In the fluff universe there are too many things that can kill a Marine too easily. Heck Cain, Gaunt and Eisenhorn knock off traitor Marines with little difficulty. I know the idea is to put the hero faction above the others in a story but I just read a Cain novel where a Genestealer kills a Terminator in about 3 seconds, while Cain fights them hand to hand for ages. Really?

I don't understand a Tyranid invasion. Surely all that is needed is some mycetic spores? Like a virus bomb that melts an entire world into goop (and then ignites it, true). Goop a world, suck it up, move on. No invasion, no chance of losing.

And MISSING WITH A LASGUN. WTH? HOW? Really if you can see it, you should be able to hit it. No windage, no bullet drop, no recoil, no nothing that makes shooting hard. The only two possible issues I can see are 1) the beam may take some time to burn through the target, even if it is one or two micro seconds then keeping it on target to do damage could be a problem, 2) beam attenuation in a debris filled war zone.

KBK
 
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