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Cruel Commissar
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Definitely on board with those saying the comedy of orks is a bit jarring. Whenever I've considered doing an ork army it was always based more on a combination of Elder Scrolls orsimer, LOTR orcs and Halo brutes. More intelligent orks who are still brutal, warlike and generally hostile but not brain dead clowns
Never liked the Orks being just stupid. I see them as something truly malicious to be afraid of that does awful stuff just for laugh. I mean if Orks enters a village, they might just as well torture the inhabitants or go into extremely cruel contests about who can throw scared villager the farthest as opposed to just kill them.

A particular bit of fluff I've always hated was Lucius being able to come back to life. Absurd. If the plot ever moves on I'd hope he gets killed by a carnifex or something that wouldn't think twice about the kill and he'd remain dead forever
It's a bit OTT, but I'm sort of fine with it as he is the plaything of Slaanesh.

Simply put, because there was no all-guiding Emperor anymore. No main figurehead where previously a disagreement meant almost nothing in light of the Emperor's knowledge and authority. "..buuut dad.."
Didn't the fact that they didn't want another Space Marine to be truly mighty again come into play? After all Guilliman is supposed to be a genius that outshines Empy all the time? Or so it seems.
 

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You're mistaking stupidity for apathy, the orks aren't a stupid race, they live to fight everything else can go burn in the warp for all they care.
 

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Cruel Commissar
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You're mistaking stupidity for apathy, the orks aren't a stupid race, they live to fight everything else can go burn in the warp for all they care.
Not to be rude, but you need a dictionary as apathy is sitting down like the colonists at Pax in Serenity the Firefly movie. The Orks doesn't sit down and die, they rather rampage and kill, a whole different sort of action.

And just for a demonstration http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Apathy
 

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The Emperor Protects
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You're mistaking stupidity for apathy, the orks aren't a stupid race, they live to fight everything else can go burn in the warp for all they care.
Not to be rude, but you need a dictionary as apathy is sitting down like the colonists at Pax in Serenity the Firefly movie. The Orks doesn't sit down and die, they rather rampage and kill, a whole different sort of action.

And just for a demonstration http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Apathy
Yeaaaah apathy is really one of the last words I would ever use to describe Orks.
 

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Not to be rude, but you need a dictionary as apathy is sitting down like the colonists at Pax in Serenity the Firefly movie. The Orks doesn't sit down and die, they rather rampage and kill, a whole different sort of action.

And just for a demonstration http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Apathy
Not to be rude but I think you should play attention in language classes a bit more.

Let's pretend we're an inquisitor whose in the know. They're fully aware that there's a swarm of countless aliens from outside the galaxy poised to strike anywhere at anytime. Not only that they're being drawn by the very thing that allows your ships to navigate the warp.

On any planet humans could start worshiping the dark gods and best case scenario they start a rebellion. Worst case they summon a daemon and things go down hill from there.

There's an entire race of raiders who could hit any planet at any time for the express purpose of taking humans to torture for their own amusement.

At any time their "good" cousins could choose to manipulate events so that people die or cause a war to start.

Under any planet millions of years old robots could arise or be awakened by the mechanicus and slaughter an entire planet.

On many planets orks could come and rampage slaughtering everything in their path.

Then there's the tau who are slowly subverting imperial plants into their own empire, every regiment and chapter sent to take that planet back is less resources to combat the other threats.

And finally to top it all off there's a negative space wedge filled with ten thousand year old super human warriors who launch a crusade every so often.

Any one of these is a threat, but they're all happening at the same time.

The other factions have their own problems. But the orks, well the only thing an ork cares about is how hard he can hit something with his choppa, or how fast he can charge at the enemy.

They don't care that there's countless threats ready to conquer the galaxy, their only concern is getting a good fight.
 

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Reaper45, you clearly need to have a sitting down with a dictionary.
Apathy,

noun, plural apathies. 1. absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.

2. lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.



Hmm, orks fit definition two perfectly.
 

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This hurts me. Really, really hurts me, but I have to agree with Beaviz here.

Orks are not apathetic. Really the opposite.

They are absolutely passionate about...whatever they choose to be.

General Orks are looking for a fight. All the time. If there's not a fight to be had, they'll make one.

Then of course the specific Ork clans have their own passions--speed, loot, technology, ect. They're a race of real passion or drive. They won't mope or sit around waiting for something, they'll grab the tusks and take it.

While Orks may be apathetic towards things other races hold dear (or at least some of them, some of the time), I think we can agree that almost every Ork (if not every Ork) has an overwhelming passion for something. Whether that's sqigg eating, head smashing, or loot taking, it's there.
 

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This hurts me. Really, really hurts me, but I have to agree with Beaviz here.

Orks are not apathetic. Really the opposite.

They are absolutely passionate about...whatever they choose to be.

General Orks are looking for a fight. All the time. If there's not a fight to be had, they'll make one.

Then of course the specific Ork clans have their own passions--speed, loot, technology, ect. They're a race of real passion or drive. They won't mope or sit around waiting for something, they'll grab the tusks and take it.

While Orks may be apathetic towards things other races hold dear (or at least some of them, some of the time), I think we can agree that almost every Ork (if not every Ork) has an overwhelming passion for something. Whether that's sqigg eating, head smashing, or loot taking, it's there.
Sp orks can be apathic to things that other races hold dear but that doesn't make them apathic?
 

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Sp orks can be apathic to things that other races hold dear but that doesn't make them apathic?
Totally. I mean, there's on real way for any race to be totally excited about everything every other race cares about. Not possible. I mean, I assume you don't share my fiery passion for Mahou Shoujo Madoka, right? (Unless you do, then I <3 you.) You may be uninterested in that anime, but surely that doesn't make you an apathetic person, right?

Orks may disregard the "finer" points of culture, but that doesn't mean they disregard everything. They have their own wants and desires.
 

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Totally. I mean, there's on real way for any race to be totally excited about everything every other race cares about. Not possible. I mean, I assume you don't share my fiery passion for Mahou Shoujo Madoka, right? (Unless you do, then I <3 you.) You may be uninterested in that anime, but surely that doesn't make you an apathetic person, right?

Orks may disregard the "finer" points of culture, but that doesn't mean they disregard everything. They have their own wants and desires.
In the definition I posted it says for definition 2. lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.

So yeah I'd say they can be apathetic.
 

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Cruel Commissar
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In the definition I posted it says for definition 2. lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.

So yeah I'd say they can be apathetic.
In that way you can mean apathetic, well from here comes a whole different meaning of it, and that's even from personal enemies of mine. Which makes me cringe.
 

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Because clearly a word can only have one meaning.
I think the problem you're having is that a being or group of people can be apathetic towards one thing (or even many things), yet not be apathetic as a whole.

Like someone could absolutely Warhammer 40k. He obsesses over every minutia and facet of the hobby. Yet at the same time have absolutely no care about sports, art, or even his personal well-being. Would you say such a person is apathetic? Absolutely not. He has a singular fiery passion driving him forward. Every breath he takes and calorie he consumes is merely means for him to delve deeper into the Warhammer 40k universe. That's passion bleeding into fanaticism.

Do you know where I'm coming from now?
 

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The Emperor Protects
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I'm sorry but you really are just wrong here. Someone can be apathetic towards something, but that doesn't mean you describe them as an apthetic person. Your confusing definitions and applying them in the wrong way.

As others have been trying to tell you, I am apathetic towards car statistics and engines, I just don't care about it, all I need from my car is for it to work, I don't care about how fast it can get to 60 etc. So yeah, I'm apathetic towards that. But I am beyond passionate about snowboarding, I'm pretty invested in the lore of 40k, in pc gaming, in Marvel and DC comics(more Marvel tbh) and many other things. There is no way you could refer to me as an apathetic person.

The same holds true for you calling Orks apathetic as a race. They simply aren't, as we have said, very much the opposite. You could say they are apathetic towards some things that others like, but that doesn't mean they are an apathetic race.
 

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Cruel Commissar
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Apathy and uncaring is not the same. I mean I'm uncaring about what certain people think or about certain sports or events. That doesn't mean I'm an apathetic being. It only means I'm uncaring about those sort of events like AoB gave great examples about. He just can't care less about them, that's all.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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I also find it interesting that guilliman decided that splitting the legions was the best course of action.

Even though the loyalists could have joined horus at any time but didn't to me it stands to reason that they're loyalty is absolute. Unless he had other reasons to want to limit their power.
See I view those Primarchs as jealous and hateful of Horus. Corax was known to have hated Horus in fact. The fact that Horus represented the vision and ambition of the Imperium, the fall basically allowed them to push forth their own thoughts after the Heresy.
 

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I sometimes wish characters in 40k fluff would die in more banal and realistic ways than they always do. Someone might go ahead and post examples of that, but by and large any significant named character in a book will almost certainly die at the hands of an enemy character of equal or greater rank than themselves. Almost always in combat too. I realise it makes a better story for a major character to die on the blade of their nemesis, but just for once could someone die to, say, an orbital barrage; massed lasgun fire; mortar shells; waves of charging hormagaunts; tau overwatch; a vector striking FMC; the blast of a battle cannon etc. Maybe a bolt pistol shot in the face.

It's a bit like primarch fights where you know neither of them die at that moment. It can be fun to read but it kills the suspense a bit when you can be sure the lone marine captain surrounded by 1,000,000 orks can't possibly die because the ork warboss isn't there to kill him.

See I view those Primarchs as jealous and hateful of Horus. Corax was known to have hated Horus in fact. The fact that Horus represented the vision and ambition of the Imperium, the fall basically allowed them to push forth their own thoughts after the Heresy.
Pre-heresy? Where's that from? Not questioning it, just curious.
 
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