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Craw-Daddy
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You're just arguing now for the sake of arguing aren't you? xD
Lol.

I don't think I like Ork fluff. I think it is capable of being a lot darker, in a "Joker" type way. I'm also glad none of the writers chose to write a plot line about orks spreading like a disease. If they have, they made it pretty clear that they purged them... lol. The thing is, the ability of orcs to reproduce is so uncontrollable that the whole galaxy should have infestations in every planet. I mean after scouring a planet, orcs have been known to pop out in the millions a couple years later.
 

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Had not that happened, god knows if any of the Grey Knights would have survived.
You're right. God knows.

We have literally no clue on how the fight went. For all we know, a lance beam from an orbiting ship finished Angron.

Or Angron slipped on a banana peel and was never seen again for a thousand years.

You're arguing from ignorance (our ignorance of how the fight finished).

He was said to be a very talented psyker, not to have incredible amounts of psychic power.
Hyperion's power drew the eyes of the last two Prognosticars of the Chapter. The final Prognosticar said, "Your powers drew notice, even before you were lingering in the trials of assessment."

You're just arguing now for the sake of arguing aren't you? xD
Nope, good ole fashion logic there.

I think the logic is sound. Do you have a counter argument for it?

Is the breaking of Angron's blade a great feat or a minor one?
 

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I'm not arguing that we don't know how the fight ended. All I'm arguing that breaking the black blade has definitely helped majorly in beating Angron.

Angron without black blade or Angron with the black blade, you decide what's more lethal. Since you're so proud of your logic.


Hyperion's power drew the eyes of the last two Prognosticars of the Chapter. The final Prognosticar said, "Your powers drew notice, even before you were lingering in the trials of assessment."
So do others thousands upon thousands psykers, doesn't means they're top notch. You clearly don't understand the difference between most established psykers in the imperium of man and those that are considered powerful.

The difference is vast.

Anyway I'm done here.
 

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Angron without black blade or Angron with the black blade, you decide what's more lethal. Since you're so proud of your logic.
Now you're changing your tune. There's a difference between "The black blade make Angron more deadly" (likely true, but even then, we're not 100% sure) and "Most of Angron's combat effectiveness lies in the Black Blade". But, hey, who needs citations in an argument, right? As long as you "feel" something is true, it ought to be true?

You clearly don't understand the difference between most established psykers in the imperium of man and those that are considered powerful.
You really didn't read The Emperor's Gift did you? Or at least not very thoroughly.

I'd bet money you didn't really read the Ravenor trilogy either.
 

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With regards to Hyperion, would just like to point out that as an untrained, virtually comatose teenager, his psychic power was enough to burn out a blank's null aura, effectively turning them into a normal human. The only other thing to achieve something similar, from what I can recall right now, was a demonically possessed titan (beings like Malcador, Magnus and the Emperor have shown themselves to be unaffected by blanks, but not to actually burn them out, though the Emperor could in all likelihood do it, if he were so inclined). So, in terms of raw power, Hyperion is definitely amongst the most powerful psykers to appear in the fluff.
 

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Grav-guns.

They seem way too advanced for the Imperium and even if there were a few of them in existence, shouldnt they be special equipment? Fluff says theres only a handful in the galaxy and yet I face SM lists with more than 12 such weapons.
Rules wise I have difficulties understanding how those things can fire so many times and wound so easily. Theyre not great vs tanks but did the game really need a gun that reliably wipes Terminator squads?

If the grav technology is so easily and effectively weaponised how come Necrons Eldar or Tau dont use it? Each of them are more competent with grav tech but none have thought about grav guns?
 

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Grav-guns.

They seem way too advanced for the Imperium
Pre-Heresy? Are you serious? Post-Heresy GGuns are 'too' advanced for obvious reasons.

If the grav technology is so easily and effectively weaponised how come Necrons Eldar or Tau dont use it? Each of them are more competent with grav tech but none have thought about grav guns?
Because they prefer other weapons.

Why don't they create their own version of Space Marines/Primarchs?

The Dark Eldar for example are not fans of heavy/bulky weaponry so you'll never see them in power-armor. They prefer a fragile but fast pace of warfare.

The Tau prefer long range warfare versus close-range because they're pitiful up close.

With regards to Hyperion, would just like to point out that as an untrained, virtually comatose teenager, his psychic power was enough to burn out a blank's null aura, effectively turning them into a normal human .
I've read TEG like 5 times and I don't recall having read that.


My contribution to the thread: the Ork's ability to produce titans of their own using nothing but scrap metal and in mere days/weeks and the fact that the basic Ork soldier is capable of killing and piercing the armor of a Space Marine with nothing more than a spear.

Similarly I'm bothered by the fact that Genestealers, of which there are millions, can slice up Terminator armor like it's made out of butter.
 

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With regards to Hyperion, would just like to point out that as an untrained, virtually comatose teenager, his psychic power was enough to burn out a blank's null aura, effectively turning them into a normal human. The only other thing to achieve something similar, from what I can recall right now, was a demonically possessed titan (beings like Malcador, Magnus and the Emperor have shown themselves to be unaffected by blanks, but not to actually burn them out, though the Emperor could in all likelihood do it, if he were so inclined). So, in terms of raw power, Hyperion is definitely amongst the most powerful psykers to appear in the fluff.
So I guess you missed the line where Ravenor stated that as a teen he had no psychic abilities of his own. He was a mirror as in he was able to be a psyker as long as another psyker was in range.

He never gained any abilities that he could use alone till he became a grey knight. That was the emperor's gift.
 

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I've read TEG like 5 times and I don't recall having read that.
Not surprising since it occurs in Ravenor Rogue.

So I guess you missed the line where Ravenor stated that as a teen he had no psychic abilities of his own.
He had no active abilities that were entirely his own as a teenager, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a lot of power. Just no outlet for all of it. On Zael's power, Ravenor said he had "Empowered deep potentials." And that's what we're talking about, his raw power.
 

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Posting in Red Text in whole or in part is expressly forbidden. Red is reserved for official moderator statements.
From the forum rules.

Reminder: This was just to vent, if you disagree, just say so. No need to beat them over the head with personal fluff interpretations.
Red text is for 'official' posts by the Staff only.

Ta :)
 

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Not surprising since it occurs in Ravenor Rogue.



He had no active abilities that were entirely his own as a teenager, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a lot of power. Just no outlet for all of it. On Zael's power, Ravenor said he had "Empowered deep potentials." And that's what we're talking about, his raw power.
Ah I wasn't aware Hyperion featured in other books.
 

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Ah I wasn't aware Hyperion featured in other books.


I highly recommended the Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies. Make sure to read Eisenhorn first, though.

Spoiler tags in the future please, especially for those (like myself) who have still yet to read the book. - darlreever
 

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I've read TEG like 5 times and I don't recall having read that.


So I guess you missed the line where Ravenor stated that as a teen he had no psychic abilities of his own. He was a mirror as in he was able to be a psyker as long as another psyker was in range.

He never gained any abilities that he could use alone till he became a grey knight. That was the emperor's gift.


Also, consider his inception into the Grey Knights. He would normally have been considered too old for recruitment. But his sheer potential for psychic power, even among Grey Knights, made them reconsider, and start the implantation process on him. So despite his age, his drug history, and his relations with Ravenor, who was in deep shit at the time, they still decided to give him a chance. And Grey Knights are only picked out of the most talented and powerful psykers the Inquisition finds. So the fact that they were willing to take that gamble on him, based purely on his potential psychic might, speaks a great deal about his inherent power. And then also consider the fact that some of the most powerful, skilled and talented Grey Knights (which, by them being Grey Knights, should easily put them amongst the most powerful psykers in the Imperium), recognised his powers, and considered him a potential future peer.

So, if you take all that into account, and then take into account his feat of shattering Angron's blade, Hyperion is easily amongst the most powerful psykers shown in the fluff, even if he doesn't have his own special Codex supplement.
 

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The Tau prefer long range warfare versus close-range because they're pitiful up close.
Hah, In Damocles collection, Shadowsun is fighting a White Scar captain on equal ground, and that is upclose and personal.

I haven't read in detail about Tau and I know that Ethereals are supposed to be quite good in close combat , but isn't this far fetched a bit?

I know it annoyed the hell out of me.

and the fact that the basic Ork soldier is capable of killing and piercing the armor of a Space Marine with nothing more than a spear.
Haven't heard of Feral Orks being capable of that, but normal boys with their chopa are more than able. It's all in their powerful muscles, really. :/

Similarly I'm bothered by the fact that Genestealers, of which there are millions, can slice up Terminator armor like it's made out of butter
Makes you wonder what are their claws made of huh? If a Terminator armor is nothing to them, nothing short of super heavy tanks and titans is capable of withstanding their claws then.

Which is incredibly dumb.
 

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Also, consider his inception into the Grey Knights. He would normally have been considered too old for recruitment. But his sheer potential for psychic power, even among Grey Knights, made them reconsider, and start the implantation process on him. So despite his age, his drug history, and his relations with Ravenor, who was in deep shit at the time, they still decided to give him a chance. And Grey Knights are only picked out of the most talented and powerful psykers the Inquisition finds. So the fact that they were willing to take that gamble on him, based purely on his potential psychic might, speaks a great deal about his inherent power. And then also consider the fact that some of the most powerful, skilled and talented Grey Knights (which, by them being Grey Knights, should easily put them amongst the most powerful psykers in the Imperium), recognised his powers, and considered him a potential future peer.

So, if you take all that into account, and then take into account his feat of shattering Angron's blade, Hyperion is easily amongst the most powerful psykers shown in the fluff, even if he doesn't have his own special Codex supplement.
Allot of artistic licensing was used in those books. According to the emperors gift which was written after and makes direct references to both series he has no potential of his own. He was a mirror.
 
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