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We all know GW's endgame plan was to never reveal who they are, etc. to boost sales and all that.

But let's pretend they give the go ahead at some point in time.

Would it be too late?

Would it even be possible?

What role do you think they and their legions could fill that the others haven't covered (IE. siege warfare, subterfuge, guerrilla warfare, etc.)?

Where could they fit in the lore? Could they even be incorporated into the overall story and most importantly the Horus Heresy in a timely fashion (some if not all of the Primarch/HH lore was made around the 80's and has been steadily updated all this time)?

Would their sudden emergence in Warhammer40K's story cause massive retcons/higher chances of messing up established lore?

Would it diminish some aspects of the established Primarchs for whatever reason? Especially if they shared traits? We've all seen how this issue could arise with all the 'is Lorgar a stronger psyker than Magnus now?' threads and posts after ADB's books came out.

What do you all think?
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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I have a storyline I've kept in the back burner for so long now, that deals with that exact question. It uses one of the timeline notes from the main rulebook - wherein it's revealed that all communications from Segmentum Pacificus suddenly cease. This is right before Abaddon's Thirteenth Black Crusade begins.

My story focuses on one of the Missing Primarchs returning right before Abaddon launches his attack. He is as committed to defeating Chaos as he is disgusted by what the Imperium turned into after the Heresy, and in essence has been waiting for the perfect storm to happen, so as to roll in and seize power. Pacificus going silent is part and parcel of his blitzkrieg coup, facilitated by his returned Legion - of which large elements were already operating incognito, masquerading as Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes.
 

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The answer is "No".


In fact, the Horus Heresy novel series essentially shut the door on it completely. Originally, the "missing" primarchs were just that, "missing".

But they aren't missing anymore. They have a definable fate. The primarchs talk about it, they talk about their missing brothers, and so they definitely existed at some point, and then didn't. We just don't know what it is. There's no room to fit them in anymore, unless they do "prequels" to the Heresy. The missing legions existed, and then they didn't exist anymore. Despite all the ambiguity in the novels about what actually did happen, something did happen, and those two legions, and their primarchs, are permanently gone.


So, like GW, there's a "never say never" caveat. But yeah, never.
 

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The answer is "No".


In fact, the Horus Heresy novel series essentially shut the door on it completely. Originally, the "missing" primarchs were just that, "missing".

But they aren't missing anymore. They have a definable fate. The primarchs talk about it, they talk about their missing brothers, and so they definitely existed at some point, and then didn't. We just don't know what it is. There's no room to fit them in anymore, unless they do "prequels" to the Heresy. The missing legions existed, and then they didn't exist anymore. Despite all the ambiguity in the novels about what actually did happen, something did happen, and those two legions, and their primarchs, are permanently gone.


So, like GW, there's a "never say never" caveat. But yeah, never.
All that is known is the Russ and the pups were sent to wipe at least one out, one of the legions were savage enough to send them running, and that what happened is forbidden to be spoken of.

There's nothing saying that the primarchs were killed. So as long as the primarch exists the legion can return.
 

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All that is known is the Russ and the pups were sent to wipe at least one out, one of the legions were savage enough to send them running, and that what happened is forbidden to be spoken of.

There's nothing saying that the primarchs were killed. So as long as the primarch exists the legion can return.
I believe the incident with Russ and his wolves being called against another legion was the Night of the Wolves (or something to that effect); when they were called against the World Eaters.

It is speculated (as most everyone knows) that the Ultramarines were involved in one or both instances since around the time of their "separate tragedies", the Ultramarines gained a significant amount of numbers to their legion. Speculation, aye, but a clue none the less.

The missing primarchs may not be confirmed dead, but there is several references and hints suggesting they are. Or at least one of them since I seem to recall them being referred to separately as The Lost and The Damned (though someone correct me if I'm wrong).
 

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All that is known is the Russ and the pups were sent to wipe at least one out, one of the legions were savage enough to send them running, and that what happened is forbidden to be spoken of.
That's two for one on quoting me today and being horribly, horribly wrong. :laugh:

Well, don't worry, there's always a next time. You'll get 'em one day.
 

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That's two for one on quoting me today and being horribly, horribly wrong. :laugh:

Well, don't worry, there's always a next time. You'll get 'em one day.
Since you're the only person who doesn't understand you're the one whose the idiot.

That being said I'll dumb it down for you.

actually no, do your own damn research.
 

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Deathwing Commissar
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There is no definitive statement (that I know of) regarding the status of the two Missing Primarchs and their Legions. Their statues in the Imperial Palace are covered. Their respective fates are referred to as "their separate tragedies", and the circumstances that led to them are not discussed.

This forum could probably benefit from a stickied thread that contains the various quotes about the Missing Primarchs from each of the Heresy novels. That way, readers might not be so quick to seize on to hypotheses and opinions that arise from word of mouth as opposed to what (admittedly, little) canon has been said on the subject. :)

Incidentally, doesn't the Lost and the Damned refer to something completely different? That is, an Army List comprised of heretics, mutants, etc.?
 

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Since you're the only person who doesn't understand you're the one whose the idiot.

That being said I'll dumb it down for you.

actually no, do your own damn research.
Already addressed this. Night of the Wolves (or something to that effect) involving the Space Wolves and the World Eaters. Russ was beaten in a brawl but Angron during that brawl got himself surrounded by the Wolves while the World Eaters were butchering any of the Wolves in sight. Basically, yeah the World Eaters sent the Wolves scurrying because of the nails effects on the World Eaters. Angron himself would have slain untold numbers of the Space Wolves and perhaps Russ himself had Russ not chosen to break off the engagement. The World Eaters still hounded the hounds while they were retreating as well.

Incidentally, doesn't the Lost and the Damned refer to something completely different? That is, an Army List comprised of heretics, mutants, etc.?
It does. But I swear I read that the Missing Primarchs were called The Lost and The Damned in one of the Horus Heresy shorts. Course I'm likely wrong, so if someone could confirm or deny this, I would appreciate it very much.
 

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I think at the very least it's a good story for GW to have up their sleeves for a later date. I can't help but feel there'll be something big missing when the HH series finishes, and something should fill that void. I find 30k fluff a hell of a lot more interesting than 40k. After reading a lot of Horus Heresy then reading 40k books it feels like a spin off of a great TV show that ended, and with none of the main characters

What I want and what will actually happen have no correlation though. I don't think they'll do anything with the missing primarchs :(

It does. But I swear I read that the Missing Primarchs were called The Lost and The Damned in one of the Horus Heresy shorts. Course I'm likely wrong, so if someone could confirm or deny this, I would appreciate it very much.
I'm pretty sure I read that too. Those exact words
 

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Bane of Empires
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Its safe to say, I think, that the Space Wolves were somehow involved in the fates of the Lost Legions. Enough hints and statements have been dropped to that effect across numerous novels now, even from the mouth of Russ himself.

We even have specific dates for these "two separate tragedies": 965.M30 and 969.M30. About 40 years before the bombardment of Isstvan III (I'm not sure if these dates align perfectly with events in The First Heretic though).

It does. But I swear I read that the Missing Primarchs were called The Lost and The Damned in one of the Horus Heresy shorts. Course I'm likely wrong, so if someone could confirm or deny this, I would appreciate it very much.
The First Heretic has Lorgar referring to the two missing Primarchs as "the forgotten and the purged."

This may be what you're referring to.
 

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Its safe to say, I think, that the Space Wolves were somehow involved in the fates of the Lost Legions. Enough hints and statements have been dropped to that effect across numerous novels now, even from the mouth of Russ himself.

We even have specific dates for these "two separate tragedies": 965.M30 and 969.M30. About 40 years before the bombardment of Isstvan III (I'm not sure if these dates align perfectly with events in The First Heretic though).



The First Heretic has Lorgar referring to the two missing Primarchs as "the forgotten and the purged."

This may be what you're referring to.
Yeah, thats probably it. Thanks :)
 

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Bane of Empires
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Angron himself would have slain untold numbers of the Space Wolves and perhaps Russ himself had Russ not chosen to break off the engagement. The World Eaters still hounded the hounds while they were retreating as well.
I've just gone over The Night of the Wolf in Betrayer again and that was not the case. Angron effectively defeated Russ in the duel, but the World Eaters lost the battle. Russ spared Angron's life when the gladiator-king was surrounded by packs of Wolves in the vain hope of teaching Angron an important lesson and to prove how much damage the Nails were doing to the World Eaters. Russ had Angron at his mercy and could have easily killed him, but chose not to.
 

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I've just gone over The Night of the Wolf in Betrayer again and that was not the case. Angron effectively defeated Russ in the duel, but the World Eaters lost the battle. Russ spared Angron's life when the gladiator-king was surrounded by packs of Wolves in the vain hope of teaching Angron an important lesson and to prove how much damage the Nails were doing to the World Eaters. Russ had Angron at his mercy and could have easily killed him, but chose not to.
Huh. So I interpreted it differently. Alrighty then.
 

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Already addressed this. Night of the Wolves (or something to that effect) involving the Space Wolves and the World Eaters. Russ was beaten in a brawl but Angron during that brawl got himself surrounded by the Wolves while the World Eaters were butchering any of the Wolves in sight. Basically, yeah the World Eaters sent the Wolves scurrying because of the nails effects on the World Eaters. Angron himself would have slain untold numbers of the Space Wolves and perhaps Russ himself had Russ not chosen to break off the engagement. The World Eaters still hounded the hounds while they were retreating as well.



It does. But I swear I read that the Missing Primarchs were called The Lost and The Damned in one of the Horus Heresy shorts. Course I'm likely wrong, so if someone could confirm or deny this, I would appreciate it very much.
If Russ was referring to the night of the wolves why all the secrecy? The impression I got from prospero what that there was another engagement before that.

And finally why send russ to angron? Horus or sanguinious would have more success in knocking sense into him.
 

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Bane of Empires
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And finally why send russ to angron? Horus or sanguinious would have more success in knocking sense into him.
Its heavily implied in the text that no one actually sent Russ, he took it upon himself to confront Angron.
 

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Its safe to say, I think, that the Space Wolves were somehow involved in the fates of the Lost Legions. Enough hints and statements have been dropped to that effect across numerous novels now, even from the mouth of Russ himself.
I used to agree...but a conversation in The Unremembered Empire struck me as...odd.

It's between a Space Wolf named Faffnr who is sent to watch over Guilliman and Guilliman himself.

G: Your reputation as the sanction is well known and perhaps undeserved. We all serve according to our courage.

(a little bit later in the conversation)

F: You heard the fate that befell Prospero?

G: The Wolves were unleashed to issue sanction to Magnus.

F: Yes. Not so undeserved a reputation after all, eh?
~~~~~~~~~~

It'd be odd for them to say that if the Wolves had, in fact, already sanctioned two Legions prior. It seems Prospero was the first whole-sale sanction.
 

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Where are those dates from?
Forgeworld's The Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre.

I could post a screen shot of the relevant time line but I'm not sure the mods would appreciate the infringement!
 
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