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Nectar of the Gods!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay... looking for a little help with a tactic that has myself and 2 others stumped on how to get around it...

The player in question is an ork player and stacks 2 units of boyz behind a wall of killa kans with a big mek with kustom force field in the center (see diagram)



I've used my Blood Angels, and the two others have attempted Necron and 'Nids against this tactic and we just can't figure out how to crack this nut...

Any suggestions is greatly appreciated
 

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I'll need some info on the Kans, specifically, what are they equipped with?

The Mek looks like he's not formally attached to any other unit; Is this the case?

What points limit are you at?
 

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Nectar of the Gods!
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Pretty much all have close combat weapons and rokkits... all pretty much armor 11. The big mek, hangs out in between the 2 units of boys and I'm pretty sure he doesn't group them together. We have been playing with roughly 1000-1300 points...
 

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Shoot the Kanz and lol at the Boyz (the Mek has to be attached to one of them btw Iron Angel as it's within 2" of a squad). Tyranids and Necrons use medium strength weight of fire from Destroyers/Heavy Ds/Hive Guard and you'll disable to the lead aspect. Blood Angels can deep strike behind if using Jumpers, use their speed and keep up shots until wall collapses if mech, bring in melta close behind a bubble wrap if Blood Rodeo, etc. There are tons of options but you need to disable the first layer and this is done through weight of fire due to 4+ cover. Once the Kanz are disabled through immob+ then the Boyz have to go through the wrecks or around and the wall tactic has failed.
 

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What if he's not though? Just saying. If he's not within 2 inches of either one, and thus not in a unit, you can pick him off to remove that pesky KFF save.

Pretty much just shoot the Kans. Kirby hit it on the head here, but the KFF will be a pain in the ass no matter what.
 

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You've got about 2 turns worth of shooting (3 if you're clever with your squads), before you need to worry much about being charged.

Just shoot the kans with everything that *can* hurt them, and whichever boyz squad the meks attached to at the time with whatever cant hurt them. remember necron gauss rule of auto-glancing on a 6 to hit... They can really bring the hurt to the Kans, since they only really need to be immobilized before you move on to the next. A stun is as good, basically anything that stops them moving. At some point, he'll need to move the boyz out in front of the wall, just focus everything on one boyz squad to bring them down. (Stick to the rule of kill a squad, then move on)

With my tyranids, i more or less employed this tactic - though i wound up killing the boyz squads off with biovores, then watching whatever was left assault me and more or less get slaughtered. Key to survival is killing the kans though. Key to winning the game (assuming objectives) is killing the boyz without losing much.
 

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Okay... looking for a little help with a tactic that has myself and 2 others stumped on how to get around it...

The player in question is an ork player and stacks 2 units of boyz behind a wall of killa kans with a big mek with kustom force field in the center (see diagram)

I've used my Blood Angels, and the two others have attempted Necron and 'Nids against this tactic and we just can't figure out how to crack this nut...

Any suggestions is greatly appreciated
Ok as Necrons I would use the Deciver on one squad of Kans and dump the what fire (momolith/destroyers) i can into the other unit. I know it dose not help munch but at 1,000 to 1,300 points necrons are verry limited in what they can do at that point range.

As IG i would pie plate the orcs nonstop and when they finaly get close run up and melta the Kans to death cover save or not.

In the end you may find that you can't beat thsi list with what you want to play atthis point level, it sucks but its life. Try to go up to 1,500 or 2,000 points and see if you still have the same problems.

best of luck.
 

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That's a properly nasty ork set up. Some options do exist but not all that many.

If you are fast enough and powerful enough, you may be able to just assault them. Kanz aren't unbeatable in cc and quite a lot of things can beat orks. If you could get death company into the orks and TH termies into the Kanz, you would do ok.

Altarnatively, a lot of missiles. Krak to knock the kanz over and then either switch to frag for the orks or assault them. That's fairly risky though, as with bad rolls the kanz can walk through a ton of fire.

In either case mobility will help. Trouble is, with all those rockets the orks can threaten rhinos and land speeders quite a lot.
 

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Deepstriking behind them is a great option. Assault the boyz from behind, that's the treasure. Alternatively get some of those lob weapons to shoot over the kanz. Unit's that can move in on any board edge would be good here. The mek is really important too take out but you probably already figured that out. 1/3 of your fire won't hit the kanz. You could try to kill his kanz with dreads too.
 

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I'd go mobile, have you got any land speeders preferably ones with a heavy flamer? A single heavy flamer could take out a good chunk of infantry or you could sacrifice it and chance a glance on a few killa kanz. I don't think dreadnoughts can run (I haven't played against one in a while so I'm probably wrong) so eventually his boyz are going to go infront of his line otherwise hes giving you alot more time to fire at them. You only need to stun those two squads of killer kans to screw his tactic.
Alternatively hit his infantry with some large blasts, this is one of the few times where a whirlwind would do wonders although a vindicator would also be ok. Yes he will get a save but considering the sheer amount of hits its worth it. Once his infantry are wiped out you've won half the battle since he can only contest.
 

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The Kanz can run. Alternatively, they can shoot down land speeders with their rokkits.

I'm not sure about deep striking into an ork army. Point is, the ork wants to get to your guys. Dropping your guys right next to him seems to be doing him a favour. Anyway, you don't know when you will arrive and he could be in charge range by the time your reserves appear. Personally, I've never seen an assaulty deep strike work properly, and I've played a lot. Deep striking stuff with guns is an option, but more for knocking out tanks with meltas than trying to burn 30 orks.

I just think you have to take your time and throw a lot of firepower. Move. Stay away from this phalanx until a lot of it is dead already, then close in to finish it off.
 

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The Kan Wall is a properly nasty setup, but Tyranids are blessed with lots of units that counter it without any real tactical thought- specifically hive guard and biovores.

Marines have more difficulties against the kans (hammernators or MMs in the face generally), but deal with hordes of orks really easily if mounted up in rhinos.

Note that I didn't really have to suggest any tactics- just specific units. The Kan wall is a very blunt instrument that requires equaly blunt countermeasures.

-edit-
what someguy said x2
 

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mech up and hit them in the flanks and leave your heavy weapons to pop the kans and act as bait for the phalanx while your flankers use shorter range weapons to reduce the number of orks you will eventually have to face.

hope this helps
 

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How about spreading the force out a bit with the split deployment tactic. It seems that this formation can only travel in one direction effectively. Therefore if split deployment is used then he either has to split the force to face each part thus reducing its effectiveness. Or go after one part which then leaves the flank of his formation open to lots of blasting.
 

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The killa kan wall with the KFF is a tough nut to crack. As other have said the counter to it speed and mobility. Going up in points is only going to allow him to add deffdreads or more kans to his armored wall. RAcing around the wall and firing at the ork units behind the wall is what you want to reduce the ork boyz but you also need shots at the kans to take them out.
The kan wall is like a sledgehammer but only if it hits so making sure to keep out of assualt range is important when you go to move your units in range to shot. The kans are also piloted by grots so they can shot better than regular orks so keep that in mind if you get into rokkit range.
A Necron Lord with Vail can zip a squad behind the wall to blast at the orks. Destroyers and heavy destroyers can move and blast the kans and orks.
 

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Nectar of the Gods!
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks to everyone who dropped their advice! I'll pass this along to the others and hopefully we can take down the green menace...
 

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My space wolves list runs three units of long fangs with a mix of missiles and lascannons and each pack I give a razorback with lascannon/ tl plasma. That much firepower with the ability to hit so many targets will rip apart that wall very, very quickly even with the KFF.

With more points I take CML wolf guard, typhoon speeders, and my troops are fully equipped grey hunters with MotW, standard, etc and do fine against boyz mobz. Plus murderous hurricane against the mobs and they have a much rougher time getting to me.
 

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I fought against an Ork list that ran similar to this in the Ard Boyz Semi Finals.
You mentioned you tried nids, so I thought I would share since that is what I used.

The cans moved forward, my trygon crashed into them absolutely devestating the cans, the ork army charged the trygon, and then the rest of my army charged the orks.

Because the Trygon is Fleet, odds are he'll always get the charge on the Kans, and unless their have really lucky dice, only a few of the Krak missiles will hit the Trygon before he charges.
 
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