The inevitable Pre-chaos moan

3243 Views 35 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Dirge Eterna, Oct 13, 2007

warrior-of-hope

Discussion Starter · Aug 16, 2007

Damn if i'm not already fed up with the pre-chaos moan. Lash is broken...yet can be stopped by a free piece of wargear librarians have and other races can put the dampener on it too i.e. tyranids and eldar.
All armies can have 9 oblits, all armies can mix troops, they can have vindicators etc....

Then theres the other camp....you need 10 man squads to take heavy weapons, the wargear options are limited, daemons are generic.

Can't people wait till a few games have been played Before they start the codex bashing??

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Galahad

· #15 · Sep 8, 2007

firewolf said:
>> Wont knock it much, until i read it, but the whole shape of my army just went tits-up cos I use 8 man, 2 melta weapon infiltrating marine units. Just have to adapt I suppose.

Just use the new Chosen instead, 3 squads of 8-10 chosen with up to FIVE assault weapons (or 4 and a heavy, or 1 heavy/assault and 4 guys with PW, PF, LC, etc), and Infiltrate, should be pretty handy for you.

As to the whining...
Man oh man, I've been on the B&C chaos boards and it's just nothing but bitching. Anyone who tries to find a positive way to go at it is getting assaulted. Even the mods are getting in on the whining and turning a blind eye to the jerks bashing on the people trying to spin it.

Ironically, most of the whining seems to be in the form of unimaginative veterans who're crying about actually being GIVEN options.

The idea of Word Bearers including a unit of berzerkers, for example, is like a slap in the face. I said, "Well, what if you just said they were normal WBs who;re so wrapped up in the frenzy of worship that they become frenzied like berzerkers, but without the association with khorne?" and I got screamed at for making up fluff in order to powergame.

I actually had a mod lay this brain-warping line on me:

Emperor's Children - How can I play emperor's Children under the new rules? I can't. I can have The Mark of Slaanesh on my Lord. And then Icons of Slaanesh in other groups, and some Noise Marines. I don't get Slaanesh Daemons, but I can get a Slaanesh mount.

So does that make them Emperor's Children?

How does that NOT make them Emperor's Children?! Hell, the new dex even has a picture of ECs with bolters and says "Not all members of the emperor's children become noise marines..."

Likewise, I hear Khorne players laughing that they can put IoK on Havocs.
Put the fuckers in a rhino and give them meltas and flamers. How is that not Khorne?

The whining is coming from a vocal bunch of unimaginative, stubborn veterans who just simply don't want to use it because it's new.

There's no reason whatsoever why you can't play any of the old legions under the new rules. In fact, they should be excited about the chance to use new units in their old lists. Khorne with Raptors? Hell yeah! Nightlords with Berzerkers? Why the hell not!

All it takes is the ability to accept change and adapt fluff. Except for the 1k sons, all the cult troops have had their legion associations loosened (not all Berzerkers are World Eaters, not all Plague Marines are Deathguard, etc) and anyone can have the icons. And even if you insist that Zerks are WE and Plagueies are DG, they also went and fractured those legions so there are wandering bands of berzerkers, 1k Sons sorcerers with ruberic bodyguards, etc all looking to be brought into a warband, regardless of its affiliation.

And people have even pointed out fluff from novels that says IW and WB have used cult troops (specifically 'zerks) during battles.

People are only upset with this dex because they WANT to be upset with it.

All it takes is just a shred of creativity.

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Galahad

· #17 · Sep 8, 2007

Viscount Vash said:
Every Edition, every Codex this happens ( although with the first CSM Codex in third edition it was valid.) Some people just don't like change.

Quoted for sheer ironic troops. Nobody hates change more than chaos, it seems.

Heres my Upbeat thoughts on the new dex ( I have posted a version of this in Hands on chaos codex.)

This dex heralds a time of the common trooper, with less conversion to do on DPs and such, Im seriously looking at converting each basic guy in the army.

Sounds fun. Hell, I almost want to start an IW army, just so I can convert some berzerkers as raging combat cyborgs with chainsaw hands. Maybe some teched out noise marines with converted weapons (perhaps use some of my leftover tau bits), some plague marines done up as bloated, lobotomized zombies...maybe even get ambitious, do thousand sons as daemonic androids lead by a squad leader with high tech weaponry, or perhaps some obvious brain implants

There's a guy on B&C who plans to redo his entire army using possessed minis (obviously with some gun arms and such), because he feels THAT is how chaos marines should look.
I applaud him.

Make your own special characters, take the stats of your favourite SC and make your own model for it. Weird and wonderful options but then 'oh he is Typhus really and the that big chainsaw is his Manreaper.'

Every Blood Angels player knows that one well. "I'm taking Lemartes because for 5 more points than a JP chaplain I get an extra wound, extra leadership, death mask, etc...but Lem has a fucking hideous mini, so we're calling him Father O'Malleus."

I have to be positive, Im not going to throw away 20 odd years of gaming experiance and fond memories just because GW have made it harder to be original with selections from the codex.

Exactly. The EC player I quoted told me rather than change his list, he;s just going to stop playing them until 5th edition codex rolls around and hope they get it right then. That's pretty damned sad.

So forward my twisted and corrupted companions in Chaos use your imaginations and we will march on to dominion over these pawns of the false emperor. :twisted:

Don't forget the not-so twisted renegades ;-)

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Galahad

· #21 · Sep 11, 2007

Expect to see cultists and daemons getting their own codex printed here soon, so fret not.

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Galahad

· #29 · Sep 12, 2007

Don't forget Chosen!

8-10 infiltrating chosen with up to 5 special weapons, (or one and up to four special close combat weapons). Icon of Khorne, a flamer or melta and four sets of lightning claws, or four powerfists, or power weapons if you're cheap, or a mix and match thereof. Pure nasty.

Mounted berzerkers, as mentioned. Marked raptors. Havocs with flamers and meltas and a powerfist champ all crammed into a rhino.

The daemons aren't as great as bloodletters, but they're CHEAP. Buy a couple units of them and throw them at the enemy to soften them up for the zerks

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Galahad

· #32 · Sep 12, 2007

Jacobite said:
I never really got why World Eaters couldn't get Raptors. Never really understood it.

The other advantage of the new deamons is that they don't take up FOC slots. Sure with Apoc that an't huge but for other games it is.

Old restrictions said cult armies could only field units that can bear their mark. Raptors were originally their own little group, not beholden to any god, hired mercs for the other armies. Like Obliterators.

Now they're just jump troops. Which I like better.
And now there's nothing that says culties can't take unmarked units. Which I also liked.

As to new daemons, the rules for them are a lot better too. No more instability, no more scatter. The icon is a teleport homer and the daemons are fearless. Rock it.

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