Just use the new Chosen instead, 3 squads of 8-10 chosen with up to FIVE assault weapons (or 4 and a heavy, or 1 heavy/assault and 4 guys with PW, PF, LC, etc), and Infiltrate, should be pretty handy for you.firewolf said:>> Wont knock it much, until i read it, but the whole shape of my army just went tits-up cos I use 8 man, 2 melta weapon infiltrating marine units. Just have to adapt I suppose.
As to the whining...
Man oh man, I've been on the B&C chaos boards and it's just nothing but bitching. Anyone who tries to find a positive way to go at it is getting assaulted. Even the mods are getting in on the whining and turning a blind eye to the jerks bashing on the people trying to spin it.
Ironically, most of the whining seems to be in the form of unimaginative veterans who're crying about actually being GIVEN options.
The idea of Word Bearers including a unit of berzerkers, for example, is like a slap in the face. I said, "Well, what if you just said they were normal WBs who;re so wrapped up in the frenzy of worship that they become frenzied like berzerkers, but without the association with khorne?" and I got screamed at for making up fluff in order to powergame.
I actually had a mod lay this brain-warping line on me:
How does that NOT make them Emperor's Children?! Hell, the new dex even has a picture of ECs with bolters and says "Not all members of the emperor's children become noise marines..."Emperor's Children - How can I play emperor's Children under the new rules? I can't. I can have The Mark of Slaanesh on my Lord. And then Icons of Slaanesh in other groups, and some Noise Marines. I don't get Slaanesh Daemons, but I can get a Slaanesh mount.
So does that make them Emperor's Children?
Likewise, I hear Khorne players laughing that they can put IoK on Havocs.
Put the fuckers in a rhino and give them meltas and flamers. How is that not Khorne?
The whining is coming from a vocal bunch of unimaginative, stubborn veterans who just simply don't want to use it because it's new.
There's no reason whatsoever why you can't play any of the old legions under the new rules. In fact, they should be excited about the chance to use new units in their old lists. Khorne with Raptors? Hell yeah! Nightlords with Berzerkers? Why the hell not!
All it takes is the ability to accept change and adapt fluff. Except for the 1k sons, all the cult troops have had their legion associations loosened (not all Berzerkers are World Eaters, not all Plague Marines are Deathguard, etc) and anyone can have the icons. And even if you insist that Zerks are WE and Plagueies are DG, they also went and fractured those legions so there are wandering bands of berzerkers, 1k Sons sorcerers with ruberic bodyguards, etc all looking to be brought into a warband, regardless of its affiliation.
And people have even pointed out fluff from novels that says IW and WB have used cult troops (specifically 'zerks) during battles.
People are only upset with this dex because they WANT to be upset with it.
All it takes is just a shred of creativity.