[warrior-of-hope]

Damn if i'm not already fed up with the pre-chaos moan. Lash is broken...yet can be stopped by a free piece of wargear librarians have and other races can put the dampener on it too i.e. tyranids and eldar.
All armies can have 9 oblits, all armies can mix troops, they can have vindicators etc....

Then theres the other camp....you need 10 man squads to take heavy weapons, the wargear options are limited, daemons are generic.

Can't people wait till a few games have been played Before they start the codex bashing??

 

[The Wraithlord]

Nids can put a damper on it? How?

I agree but notice that the majority of the moaning is from the powergamer min/max crowd. Some from the uber fluff nuts as well but not nearly as much. The rest of us actually dig the new book.

 

[Firewolf]

>> Wont knock it much, until i read it, but the whole shape of my army just went tits-up cos I use 8 man, 2 melta weapon infiltrating marine units. Just have to adapt I suppose.

 

[The Wraithlord]

I used one of those units and two with plasma guns as well. It isn't so bad really as you can actually do that and better with chosen now.

 

[Dirge Eterna]

I don't particularly care for the new Possessed rules...but the models are kool. I might simply collect Nurgle for the kick-ass look, and play my Loyalists.

-Dirge

 

[The Wraithlord]

I am seriously considering selling off my current csm's in order to build an army based on those possessed models. To my mind, THAT is exactly what csm's should look like.

 

[Firewolf]

>> Have had a read, and honestly, I cant say anything really sucks about the dex.Sure, stuffs been taken out, added, all the usual nerfy shite, but, all in all, pretty good. I sense Slaaneshii followers appearing quite heavy in my army. All the moaning about taking away background is fair, but antbody could make a fluffy army out of it if they put their mind to it.

 

[Jacobite]

I agree but notice that the majority of the moaning is from the powergamer min/max crowd.

Yea and they always bitch and moan about everything.

 

[Viscount Vash]

MMMM Come to me my Chirdren of sensual pleasures.

Yep from what I have seen and heard the ranks of Fulgrims followers will soon swell to epic proportions.

As to the moaning: it always happens before the release of a book and goes away after a couple of months. (I seen this every time since 1st Ed.) The only time it did not was the third Ed balls up when we got two Codex Chaos co the first one was rap with a capiltal C.

 

[Firewolf]

>> Seeing the rules for possessed, they not actually that bad. Not looking forward to getting new ones, cos cant use ones I have, cos champ git power fist. Do people reckon I could use them as chosen? They pretty mutated like.

 

[Jacobite]

They are defintly fancy enough to be used as chosen.

Use they as you like man. As long as you tell me clearly at the start of a game I have no problem with it.

 

[jigplums]

i can't see a good reason why you wouldn't be able to use them, as long as they look mutated and its obvious to your opp what they are meant to be.

 

[Alexander_67]

its true i see no point in bashing the rules until i get my models on the table and finding out for oneself... but if they do suck oh then its on.

 

[Red couisars]

go ahead use um :roll:

 

[Galahad]

>> Wont knock it much, until i read it, but the whole shape of my army just went tits-up cos I use 8 man, 2 melta weapon infiltrating marine units. Just have to adapt I suppose.

Just use the new Chosen instead, 3 squads of 8-10 chosen with up to FIVE assault weapons (or 4 and a heavy, or 1 heavy/assault and 4 guys with PW, PF, LC, etc), and Infiltrate, should be pretty handy for you.

As to the whining...
Man oh man, I've been on the B&C chaos boards and it's just nothing but bitching. Anyone who tries to find a positive way to go at it is getting assaulted. Even the mods are getting in on the whining and turning a blind eye to the jerks bashing on the people trying to spin it.

Ironically, most of the whining seems to be in the form of unimaginative veterans who're crying about actually being GIVEN options.

The idea of Word Bearers including a unit of berzerkers, for example, is like a slap in the face. I said, "Well, what if you just said they were normal WBs who;re so wrapped up in the frenzy of worship that they become frenzied like berzerkers, but without the association with khorne?" and I got screamed at for making up fluff in order to powergame.

I actually had a mod lay this brain-warping line on me:

Emperor's Children - How can I play emperor's Children under the new rules? I can't. I can have The Mark of Slaanesh on my Lord. And then Icons of Slaanesh in other groups, and some Noise Marines. I don't get Slaanesh Daemons, but I can get a Slaanesh mount.

So does that make them Emperor's Children?

How does that NOT make them Emperor's Children?! Hell, the new dex even has a picture of ECs with bolters and says "Not all members of the emperor's children become noise marines..."

Likewise, I hear Khorne players laughing that they can put IoK on Havocs.
Put the fuckers in a rhino and give them meltas and flamers. How is that not Khorne?

The whining is coming from a vocal bunch of unimaginative, stubborn veterans who just simply don't want to use it because it's new.

There's no reason whatsoever why you can't play any of the old legions under the new rules. In fact, they should be excited about the chance to use new units in their old lists. Khorne with Raptors? Hell yeah! Nightlords with Berzerkers? Why the hell not!

All it takes is the ability to accept change and adapt fluff. Except for the 1k sons, all the cult troops have had their legion associations loosened (not all Berzerkers are World Eaters, not all Plague Marines are Deathguard, etc) and anyone can have the icons. And even if you insist that Zerks are WE and Plagueies are DG, they also went and fractured those legions so there are wandering bands of berzerkers, 1k Sons sorcerers with ruberic bodyguards, etc all looking to be brought into a warband, regardless of its affiliation.

And people have even pointed out fluff from novels that says IW and WB have used cult troops (specifically 'zerks) during battles.

People are only upset with this dex because they WANT to be upset with it.

All it takes is just a shred of creativity.

 

[Viscount Vash]

The whining is coming from a vocal bunch of unimaginative, stubborn veterans who just simply don't want to use it because it's new.

Every Edition, every Codex this happens ( although with the first CSM Codex in third edition it was valid.) Some people just don't like change.

Im surpirised you havn't found a quote of some poor Alpha Legion Player bemoaning the fate of cultist, I had 120 of the blighters so I feel a certian leeway is allowed if I want to whine.

That said, Im just Getting on with it and making do. What you have said Galahad is pretty much right and I agree with you.

Heres my Upbeat thoughts on the new dex ( I have posted a version of this in Hands on chaos codex.)

This dex heralds a time of the common trooper, with less conversion to do on DPs and such, Im seriously looking at converting each basic guy in the army.

Make your own special characters, take the stats of your favourite SC and make your own model for it. Weird and wonderful options but then 'oh he is Typhus really and the that big chainsaw is his Manreaper.'

I have to be positive, Im not going to throw away 20 odd years of gaming experiance and fond memories just because GW have made it harder to be original with selections from the codex.


So forward my twisted and corrupted companions in Chaos use your imaginations and we will march on to dominion over these pawns of the false emperor. :twisted:

 

[Galahad]

Every Edition, every Codex this happens ( although with the first CSM Codex in third edition it was valid.) Some people just don't like change.

Quoted for sheer ironic troops. Nobody hates change more than chaos, it seems.

Heres my Upbeat thoughts on the new dex ( I have posted a version of this in Hands on chaos codex.)

This dex heralds a time of the common trooper, with less conversion to do on DPs and such, Im seriously looking at converting each basic guy in the army.

Sounds fun. Hell, I almost want to start an IW army, just so I can convert some berzerkers as raging combat cyborgs with chainsaw hands. Maybe some teched out noise marines with converted weapons (perhaps use some of my leftover tau bits), some plague marines done up as bloated, lobotomized zombies...maybe even get ambitious, do thousand sons as daemonic androids lead by a squad leader with high tech weaponry, or perhaps some obvious brain implants

There's a guy on B&C who plans to redo his entire army using possessed minis (obviously with some gun arms and such), because he feels THAT is how chaos marines should look.
I applaud him.

Make your own special characters, take the stats of your favourite SC and make your own model for it. Weird and wonderful options but then 'oh he is Typhus really and the that big chainsaw is his Manreaper.'

Every Blood Angels player knows that one well. "I'm taking Lemartes because for 5 more points than a JP chaplain I get an extra wound, extra leadership, death mask, etc...but Lem has a fucking hideous mini, so we're calling him Father O'Malleus."

I have to be positive, Im not going to throw away 20 odd years of gaming experiance and fond memories just because GW have made it harder to be original with selections from the codex.

Exactly. The EC player I quoted told me rather than change his list, he;s just going to stop playing them until 5th edition codex rolls around and hope they get it right then. That's pretty damned sad.

So forward my twisted and corrupted companions in Chaos use your imaginations and we will march on to dominion over these pawns of the false emperor. :twisted:

Don't forget the not-so twisted renegades ;-)

 

[DaemonsR'us]

I personally kinda like how you can twist the new fluff since its mainly scattered warbands, i play word bearers and i mean... they worship all 4 gods as a panthenon, why wouldnt each god give them their gifts, such as zerkers, plague marines, niose marines and sorcerers? i mean it actually does make fluff sense, and in a 2000 pnt match, ive got a really cheep lord to go with my chosen or CC orientated marines and imusing my dark apostle model because hes got almost everything he had before, and hes cheeper and better for the points he cost me then in the last dex! and im throwing around 10 lesser daemons, you pop them into play, charge them and hey look theres friggen 30 attacks with marine stats for 13 points/model!

 

[Viscount Vash]

Don't forget the not-so twisted renegades

Their just corrupted. :twisted:

 

[hephesto]

Good points here guys, though I do not agree with all the changes I've found the codex to be pretty good. In fact my only real problem is with the disappearance of cultists and variation in daemons. Two sub-armies have effectively been killed off.

Beyond that the use of icon can really help you do a lott of cool things, galahad's Khornate flamer/melta havocs are a good example. Beyond that things look pretty damn good for us chaos boys, especially with all those shiny new kits and bits!

Personally I'm sticking with my Iron Warriors and will be attempting a fluffy army so no icons for me. Though the lure of the chaos spawn was to great...will just have to convert them into cyberspawn :wink: