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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There was a time when GK rocked
When their Strike Squads ruled
And their options inviting
There was a time when builds weren't locked
And the book was a chance
And the chance was exciting
There was a time
Then it all went wrong

I dreamed a dream in time gone by
When hope was high
And life worth living
I dreamed Grey Knights would never die
I dreamed Gee Dub would be forgiving

Then I was young and unafraid
So dreams were made and used and wasted
There were low points costs to be paid
No game un-won
No win untasted

But the authors come at night
With their pens as soft as thunder
As they tear your hope apart
And they turn your dream to shame

Ward slept through 5th ed by my side
He filled my games with endless wonder
He made sure all the newbies cried
But he was gone when 7th came
And still I dream he'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
There are editions we can't weather

I had a dream my book would be
So different from this shit I'm reading
So different now from what it seemed
Gee Dub has killed
The dream I dreamed
 

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Aye, it's what finally pushed me into 30k
 

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I was not ready for that on a cold Thursday morning... ive gotta go, ive err... got something in my eye [sniff]
 

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bah. GK where the Eldar of 5th edition. They are now a viable codex to play with friends, while eldars are not. I blame he eldar not the GK.
 

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I still like the Knights. I'm a fluff guy, so I'm happy to eventually build the army. I intend to abuse the Champions of Fenris formations, add 'Shieldbearers' in the from of WGBLs in Terminator armor... because darn it, why should Draigo be the only knight with a shield?

I actually currently have 4 interchangeable 2000 point Knight lists, all built around a core of 15 Terminators, a Librarian, and of course my Comms Officer, Inquisitor Taximus. I just need to start collecting models (all I have right now is the Imperial Knight)
 

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But the codex space marines: Grey Knights Supplement is dull, uninteresting and very similar to the other chapters? Isn't that what the community overwhelmingly wanted?
 

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I actually liked *most* of the GK 5th ed codex (psybolt ammo being the most OP thing in the codex, and that could be easily house-ruled since it was really just under costed for what it was, it should have been priced at a per model useage (and be an all or nothing choice for squads) and be 10-20 points more expensive for vehicles)

but 6th's change on characters destroyed the most annoying part of the army (paladins and Draigo wing)

It wasn't like the codex itself was OP only during the last 1/3rd(?) or so of 5th was it really bad, and we already discussed the two major issues of the codex above. And it's not like the DE weren't sorta bad before them (definitely one of the better balanced codexs of 5th), and Necrons were bad after them so they were not the only army to "break" the game during the time.razorback wolves and BA were up there, and arty guard (leaf blower) stayed at the top for a long while.

----

Side note/thought path

I would rather see the SoB, Inquisition (and assassins) incorporated into the codex and just have it be called codex "Inquisition" or "Ecclesiarchy" or something along those lines.

In that sort of book, the GKs (Units) would probably be 10%(maybe?) more expensive in their current slots, just so that the SoB/henchmen/abartes/whatever have a decent price difference between each other.

I mean if the current SoB + GK + Inquisiton + Assassins were all in one book, would it be OP? People who actually play either/both armies, or at least have the SoB rules, clarify if that would be a bad idea?
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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I feel like @Fallen is kinda glancing on some of what's important here: GK don't have to be in one book to field them alongside a bundle of other armies, any more, unless you're stuck with arbitrary Tourney limitations. You can field as many detachments as you want, and GK only have to be one of them.

Grey Knights, while if you want to field them as a mono army, are certainly locked into a build, there's nothing to stop you from fielding a small detachment of them among a scattering of other Armies of the Imperium, only bringing what they bring to the table well. They can, say, offset an Astra Militarum list with some viable counter-attackers; add some psychic might to pump up a Culexus; DS in on Inquisitor Servo-skulls then run with their Incinerators for maximum torching; counterbalance the heavy amounts of arc haywire of Skitarii with some Daemonhammers and Hammerhand to kill anything else; provide a ML3 Librarian with Aegis for a psychic hood providing excellent anti-psy cover to the core of your army; etc.

GK are specialists. As long as you want to field them as a mediocre solo army with a low model count, go ahead. Take them as a scalpel counterbalancing the weaknesses of another army, or even as one of a polyglot handful of Armies of the Imperium... and I think you can still have fun with them.
 

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GK are specialists. As long as you want to field them as a mediocre solo army with a low model count, go ahead. Take them as a scalpel counterbalancing the weaknesses of another army, or even as one of a polyglot handful of Armies of the Imperium... and I think you can still have fun with them.
you deserve some rep for that.
 

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Jeepers
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Honestly I think it's reached a point where there are that many marine 'variations' that it's become a problem.

Either they're wildly different from Vanilla, to the point they debatably become OP/broken. Or they get reigned in to Vanilla with just a smidge of difference to warranty them being their own book and are debatably weak and uncompetitive.

As far as marines go now, I'm just 30k, love my 40k, I really do, love my Sisters, Dark Eldar, Harlies and now Skitarri but for marines I just stick with 30k
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
For Grey Knights

Its like a return to 2nd edd when they were just an allied squad!

And Iam sorry.
Eh, no, they still work as a primary but they're limited to GKT and Dreadknights and that's basically it. It's just the lack of diversity in the book that kills me.

Honestly I think it's reached a point where there are that many marine 'variations' that it's become a problem.

Either they're wildly different from Vanilla, to the point they debatably become OP/broken. Or they get reigned in to Vanilla with just a smidge of difference to warranty them being their own book and are debatably weak and uncompetitive.
Disagree. Blood Angels are a torrent combat infantry variant with Fast vehicles and Jump Packs with more a focus on Special Weapons (and Heavy Flamers which basically are specials) and Deep Strike availability; Space Wolves do a stronger midfield list and have T5 W2 3++ Cavalry as a melee hammer at the expense of some of the longer-ranged options; Grey Knights are a totally different beast, being a deep strike melee army based entirely around Str7 AP4 Rending and Str6 Ap3 Force. I've never once fought a Space Marine army of any stripe and thought 'this could be a BA/SW/GK army and I wouldn't notice' thing.

I liked your poem.
It's a song dammit!
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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And fuck all those guys who had a standalone faction before, right?
I feel that pain, I really do. But I can't control the direction GW's taken the hobby, sorry. We can only control how we react to their decisions, not what those decisions are.

It's a song dammit!
Les Miserables, right? Had an inkling when I first read it, though could well be wrong...
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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A sad day indeed, when Grey Knights need to ally in Blood Angel drop pods as FA slots just to DS in their Purgation squads to run up and multi-Incinerator fools, and take the HQ/Troops tax to remain battle-forged.
 

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Rattlehead
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I feel that pain, I really do. But I can't control the direction GW's taken the hobby, sorry. We can only control how we react to their decisions, not what those decisions are.
I'm winning and having a lot of fun playing them as a single faction, near enough (dropping 30 Terminators and 2 Dreadknights onto somebody's head is just cool - Inquisitor on the Comms Relay, but whatever).

Les Miserables, right? Had an inkling when I first read it, though could well be wrong...
Give the man a prize.

A sad day indeed, when Grey Knights need to ally in Blood Angel drop pods as FA slots just to DS in their Purgation squads to run up and multi-Incinerator fools, and take the HQ/Troops tax to remain battle-forged.
Yeah, inexplicable lack of Deep Strike on Purgators and more importantly, Purifiers (since Purgators take up Dreadknight slots and I love my silly robots) is something that bugs me but I've had a lot of success getting them out of Stormravens. Now that Eldar are forced into bringing a fuckton of Guardians, if I remember their Warhost super-formation right, then it'll be even better (nothing like melting 30 Fire Warriors/Guardians etc. in a turn when you disembark from a Stormraven to deliver the Emperor's Cleansing Fire).
 

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You could always use SW drop pods? I've been doing a lot of 'token dreadnoughts/WGBL terminators' with the Great Wolf Detachment, so that can get you some FA drop pods....

Dreadnoughts and Terminators with sword/shield? They even feel like Grey Knights. :)
 
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