[Androxine Vortex]

Of course tzeench is the changer of ways and he is always plotting for something but just what is it? does he even know? is he just plotting in a way that it will never come to be? Is he even sane? The way i see it there are two ways;

1: He is plotting for something but dosen't exactly know what. He takes EVERY single detail and aspect of the material and imaterial universe into mind and tries to orchestrate some grand scheme. Of course it wont work so he will have to restrategize and therefore will never succeed in reaching his goal and will plot forever.

2: He is trying to "win" the great game without destroying chaos. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Great_Game) He is trying to have complete dominance over the other gods, the warp, everything. I think that he will "win" in a way that no one would have expected. it would be as if they were playing a board game and he pulled a trick that should have been illegal but was breaking no rule.

 

[Serpion5]

He plots. That`s all he does. He can`t actually have a goal, for if he succeeded it would mean he no longer had a plot to follow and would no longer exist.

Ultimately, his followers may have their agendas, but to him they are just pieces to move back and forth to keep the great game flowing, for better or worse it really doesn`t matter.

Tzeentch really is the ultimate god of discord.

 

[Child-of-the-Emperor]

Serpion5 is right.

'Trapped within his own ineffable thoughts Tzeentch has no goals or aims other than the weaving of complex schemes.' - C:CD page 12.

Essentially Tzeentch has no ultimate purpose or grand scheme, because by achieving it he would put an end to change and thus destroy himself.

 

[Belthazor Aurellius]

I thought he was the god of change, not the god of plans, anyways. Perhaps Tzeentch will give me a quarter and two dimes today...

 

[Davidicus 40k]

I agree that Tzeentch has no ultimate goal, but he must have short-term objectives.

For example: "How can I ruin this Space Marine's day?" He can plot and scheme and connive all he wants, but it's all to ruin the Space Marine's day. If he had no goals, it would simply be... well, I don't know.

Plot, scheme... the inherent definition implies some kind of desired, final outcome. Means to an end. If he lacks that, how can he plot and scheme?

This, among many other things, is why followers of Chaos GO INSANE.

Also: Change would still happen if the universe was conquered by Chaos or some other credible goal of his was achieved. Things always change and shift and mutate and grow and die and... well, it's an integral part of existence. Even if the universe was conquered by Chaos, could he not plot and scheme against the slaves of his fellow gods? If he conquered them, he could toy with his minions for the rest of eternity. He will always be the same, no matter what happens to the universe. So can we say that he would support Chaos conquering everything, or does he really not care either way?

Insane!!!!!!

 

[DonFer]

It's kinda answering the question about "who's first, the egg or the hen?". Being the lord of change, Tzeentch is locked in an endless circle of change, so basically he will never win, and will win at the same time. Sounds looney but allow me to explain myself.

When one of his plans comes to fruitition it inherently would have to destroy itself since change is the only way Tzeentch knows, therefore eliminating himself from every "equation" he's involved with and inserting himself again at the same time (another plot).

So if someday chaos takes over the imperium, tzeentch would have to plot some scheme to bring order to chaos, thereofre destroying his fellow bad-asses. So come to think of it, if he wants to destroy humanity, eventually he would want to help it just "for changes".

My head hurts with all this philosofy stuff....:crazy:

 

[cain the betrayer]

dont try to understant the great lord of change if you value you sanity:wacko:

 

[Androxine Vortex]

If all this stuff that you guys say is true, then why does he want to have followers and have people worship him? It just seems that he would only use them as puppets to bring about his goals and change but why if he never has them finished? If he is trying to accomplish some goal or something like that, why would he really care about who worshiped him?

Tzeentch is the most puzzling god to me, and don't get me wrong, he's my favorite and I would side with him because I think that knowledge is power, I just want to get a broader understanding about his nature. I honestly believe that he is a genius but insane. An insane genius if you will. Thats how he keeps himself in "that circle of change"

 

[DonFer]

If all this stuff that you guys say is true, then why does he want to have followers and have people worship him? It just seems that he would only use them as puppets to bring about his goals and change but why if he never has them finished? If he is trying to accomplish some goal or something like that, why would he really care about who worshiped him?

Tzeentch is the most puzzling god to me, and don't get me wrong, he's my favorite and I would side with him because I think that knowledge is power, I just want to get a broader understanding about his nature. I honestly believe that he is a genius but insane. An insane genius if you will. Thats how he keeps himself in "that circle of change"

Indeed. If I recall correctly in Dark Mechanicum, there's a daemon of tzentch that saw his plan "twarted" only because of tzeentch. So there you go, he may have plans but they will change as he always wanted it. now changing of subject....:biggrin:

 

[aboytervigon]

tzeetch doesnt have a goal as plotting strenghens him enough he plots to plot and plot he plots to stop plotrring ...... BUNNY RABIITS DIASJIODFIOAJF

(im sorry i have gone insane trying to figure this out)

 

[Khargoth]

The thing is Tzeentch even fights himself. He schemes to win but he sabotages his own plans if they go too well. He loses interest in schemes that are succeeding and puts more attention into ones that are challenging. His sudden loss of benevolence often costs those followers their lives and ruins the plan; thus continuing the Great Game, except he's taking on everyone at once just for it to be even more complex and challenging. Considering Tzeentch as a literal god of change can complicate things. It's not a matter of changing things for the sake of it; otherwise you'd see him taking patronage over Imperial, Chaos and Ork alike. Sometimes it probably looks that way, arbitrary changes of mind, but it's deeper than that. Tzeentch wants new things, new knowledge, new followers, and most of all new opponents to scheme against.

Ultimately he wants the universe to be a chess opponent whom he can only just not beat. He won't ever conquer the universe because that's false change; it's nothing new because controls how it plays out. He can pit his followers and conquered slaves off against each other, allow new empires to rise and fall, but in the long run that's just playing with yourself :grin:

 

[Davidicus 40k]

The thing is Tzeentch even fights himself. He schemes to win but he sabotages his own plans if they go too well. He loses interest in schemes that are succeeding and puts more attention into ones that are challenging. His sudden loss of benevolence often costs those followers their lives and ruins the plan; thus continuing the Great Game, except he's taking on everyone at once just for it to be even more complex and challenging. Considering Tzeentch as a literal god of change can complicate things. It's not a matter of changing things for the sake of it; otherwise you'd see him taking patronage over Imperial, Chaos and Ork alike. Sometimes it probably looks that way, arbitrary changes of mind, but it's deeper than that. Tzeentch wants new things, new knowledge, new followers, and most of all new opponents to scheme against.

Ultimately he wants the universe to be a chess opponent whom he can only just not beat. He won't ever conquer the universe because that's false change; it's nothing new because controls how it plays out. He can pit his followers and conquered slaves off against each other, allow new empires to rise and fall, but in the long run that's just playing with yourself :grin:

Ah, I see. Tzeentch is the guy that would sabotage any plans of marriage and sleep with as many women as possible... and punch himself in the face if he was ever "too" happy.

Sounds like a great god to worship :wacko:.

 

[Khargoth]

Not at all! That's where everyone slips up, Tzeentch is truly happy when he's playing the game, winning is just as bad as losing because that's the end of the game, and the end of Tzeentch.

He's more like The Joker, he won't ever win because it's too much fun battling with Batman.