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Craw-Daddy
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Sometimes... inacurate depictions certain battles. For me, the worst one was the Iron Cage in Lexicanum and I've also seen this in other 40K wiki's shows that it was a battle that depicted the strife of Rogal Dorn. Though his forces got destroyed and they used their own brothers as literal human shields... and Perturabo got elevated to a Daemon Prince... and Rogal Dorn lost all those geneseed to the Iron Warriors, the Imperial Fists triumphed. To me at least, it makes more sense to deny it ever happened then to lay claim to a lie thats just crying out BULLSHIT.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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4,472 Posts
Ultramarines did didly squat during the heresy. They were too far away to do anything. In many ways it was the reason that they were the legion most intact after the heresy that let Guilliman become "Lord Commander of the Imperium." Also probably a good reason why the legions that didn't want to break down their legions did eventually.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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4,472 Posts
Which if anything makes Calgars defeat of it even more absurd. Tbh its just the Ultramarines in general for me. They just can't do anything wrong, every other major chapter i can think of has had major defeats or really shitty things happen to them or are flawed in some way. Not the smurfs though, literally everything they do is perfect, evrythings a win, fuck guilliaman died yet they still HAD to add a little tid-bit in that some believe hes healing, sure he's not but the very fact that it exists pisses me off

I don't think I've heard this story, however, it could be that Guilliman lied about it or at least the fluff around it hyped it up to were perhaps the Avatar was actually more or less crippled before his fight with Calagar... He did lie about killing Daemon Prince M'Kar....

By the way Angel of Blood, I suggest you not read the book The Chapter's Due. I think if it pissed me off, it would set you over the edge. lolz.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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4,472 Posts
We get it. You hate the Ultra Marines.
Sorry for double posting, but just read this.

I believe that the mystery around this big number disapearing after the Heresy is indeed something that should be pointed out.

And I also believe that its not that people "hate" the Ultramarines. If there is hate it is often a misplaced hatred. At least to me, I think that the Ultramarines background fluff is well enough to where it could be one of the GWs most favored chapters. However, with all these over-glorifying stories about how fucken awesome they are, where an Ultramarine pulls an awesome knife out of his ass to make a daemon prince go "poof" and roaming around the eye of terror being completely fine, and the rest of the smurf crap thats being shoved down fans throats, its just like... :shok:... okay I get it. You can stop now.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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4,472 Posts
To be fair they probably know they are going back to the warp anyway. Probably just destroying crap till they died. Its like playing call of duty Modern Warfare 2. Your killing nubes left and right. Your too tired as you exhausted yourself. Then the nubest of the nubes finds some stupid way to kill you, like camping and waiting for me, or some stupid predator missle.

So in all fairness, neither Dante or Guilliman were nubes. I think the idea that the Daemon Prince and the Avatar where both exhausted over their previous engagements before encountering these heros that finished them as more likely.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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4,472 Posts
On the contrary, the majority of the battle is detailed and Calgars fight with the Avatar is well detailed, toe to toe is exactly what he did. The rest of the UM with him were quite busy with the other Eldar, the ones that did fire at the Avatar did little damage. The Dante one however is entirely open to myth and interpretation and i for one hope it is a warped acount of what happened. I love the Blood Angels and Dante but that would be worse than the Avatar fight, cutting a Bloodthirster in half with one blow with a weapon that wasn't even a Primarchs.
Hey Calagar could also be a lieing sack of shit as stated before. You watch the next of Uriel's adventures will be an Avatar escaping his shackles from underneath the temple of Calagar! Just like the lie of M'kar, Uriel must find the "shard of Khain" and poke the Avatar with it so that it blows up like a balloon! :training:
 

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Craw-Daddy
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4,472 Posts
In my opinion part of the problem is that the fluff and the rules will never really jive with each other. Usually the game play comes first so that there is an interest in the backstory. So if a reader has played the game for a while and seen how pathetic the IG lasgun can be, it makes it difficult to read a novel showing how deadly they are. Same thing with Ork shooting or any other area where the game does not seem to match the fluff.

Based on the previous hate for Marneus Calgar I almost hate to mention this but I had a BT trooper with a Power Fist in 3rd edition kill an Avatar in combat with this squad in HTH combat. Does this make him better than all the Primarchs and the equal of Calgar? No, he got very lucky and had some guys around to take ablative wounds as he punded on the Avatar. Now if I wrote a fluff piece and had this same BT trooper take the head off of an Avatar in combat everyone on here would cry foul, yet in the game it happened and it should be able to happen in the fluff as well, especially when you change the facts to make my BT Trooper into someone like Calgar.
I know your not comparing the game to actual 40k fluff. The game is absolutely something entirely different as the rules were made to create balance and keep a game from going more than two hours.
 
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