Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Good day

I have been reading in here, and have made myself a list, inspired by the deamons, but running with the models is have/like.

I have a deathguard army, with some deamons on the side, all nurgled up.


enough of that... to the list all ready...


Chaos Lord: MoN, Bike, 4+ invul, melta bombs, Blight Grenades, power sword. 130

Chaos lord: Juggernaught, MoK, 4+ ward, Axe of Blind Fury ,melta bomb 175

6 bikes: MoN, Champion w. power fist and meltabomb, 2x meltagun 211

5 terminators 3x power weapon, MoN, 2x p. fist 201

5 spawn 150

Maulerfiend 125

10 cultists 50

5 plague marines: 2xplasma gun, champ. w. melta bombs 155

Rhino 35



Allies:

Khorne Herald: Juggernought, Lesser reward, greater reward, locus of re-roll to hit. 155

20 hounds 320

3 nurglings 45




Right. Its basically about rushing them and murdering them with their own spleens.
Pretty basic.

While the cultist and nurgling grap my own objectives and the Marines grap what ever is left.
oh and the termies teleport in. I figure that they might actually be useful in a list like this, with so many targets.


My problem here is, that like a deamon army, im very short of anything to take out dangerous targets with. Such as Leman russes and vindicators.

i could take out the termines, but its the nice forge world ones... and the same goes for the marines :)

any suggestions? i have a vindicator, havocs, and obliterators, more marines and some more.
and before any1 ask, no i dont have a fatebird or a be'lalkor :)
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
and before any1 ask, no i dont have a fatebird or a be'lalkor
Now there's a comment aimed at me if I've ever seen one! (and don't worry, I wouldn't recommend a fatebirdy in a CSM primary detachment list, since no Warlord Trait for the Warp Storm)

Chaos Lord: MoN, Bike, 4+ invul, melta bombs, Blight Grenades, power sword. 130

Chaos lord: Juggernaught, MoK, 4+ ward, sword of dreadfull murder(cant rem the name),melta bomb 175

6 bikes: MoN, Champion w. power fist and meltabomb, 2x meltagun 211

5 spawn 150
I might consider swapping the MoN from the bikes to the Spawn, so the Spawn aren't being IDed by S10 attacks (though you'd obviously have to swap the Lords and their respective retinues). MoK on the Bikers might be overkill, but I do so enjoy having an Icon of Wrath to reroll that assault, when I flub the roll...

On the Juggerlord, I'd definitely swap the Murder Sword for the Axe of Blind Fury, just so you can rip enemy folks to shreds much more effectively

The Nurgle Lord, if you can scrape up the points, might do better with a lightning claw and a power fist rather than power sword and meltabombs. As is, he's kind of limited against high toughness MCs or 2+ armor.

5 terminators 3x power weapon, MoN, 2x p. fist 201
I realize you're going for kind of a Nurgle theme here, but I might consider taking MoT on these guys instead, since most stuff that's AP2 is also high enough strength that your T6 is going to only offer a marginally better defense, while a better invuln save will save them from things that kill them well more often. Totally understand if you want them to be near wholly impervious to small arms fire, though. I also prefer chainfists to power fists, thanks to the better tank-cracking, and would prefer a few combi-meltas in there, but all of those upgrades cost points and all, and really only offer a marginal benefit. Still, combi-meltas would certainly give you a (short-)ranged bite against Vindis and Leman Russes...

Still don't have much anti-flyer, and are dependent on getting into combat for the tank-killing. If you want more serious ranged tank-cracking, I suppose you could drop the Termis and grab, say, Havocs (missile lanchers, maybe?) or a Vindi w/ Daemonic Possesion, plus a MoN Obliterator, instead.

I might consider dropping 3-4 Flesh Hounds to make room for these other changes I'm suggesting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
hmm yeah i might drop a few hounds..

good idea to get a few points loose. i had melta's on the termies but they had to go.
might get it back with a few hounds.
2 meltas and a chainfist are just 1 hound.
¨
i think ill rather drop the marines down to cultists than drop the termies.

always loved them... just a shame they are rather lackluster these days.


Edit: oh and we dont use flyers much, if at all in my crowd, so thats not really an issue
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Hounds can eat most tanks. They are s4 or s5 on charge not that it matters. They can eat the back of tanks as they glance things to death.
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
Hounds can eat most tanks. They are s4 or s5 on charge not that it matters. They can eat the back of tanks as they glance things to death.
For the listed problem vehicles of Vindis and Leman Russes, certainly true (though some variants of Leman Russ are AV11 rear, so those in particular you could only glance on the assault--still, with that many Hounds, I daresay you could still roll 3 or more 6s to glance pretty reliably...)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
oh yes, easily, but a few lascannons might bag me first blood, and alot of fewer dead things, on my end.

As it is now, i need to catch it before i can eat it.

Hell, the spawn eat tanks too, np.

but being able to destroy fast/nasty things is quite usefull
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
but perhaps i should just make the minor suggestions first, and try it, and see.

whats the worst that can happen :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
but perhaps i should just make the minor suggestions first, and try it, and see.

whats the worst that can happen :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
I quite like the deepstriking terminators in this list. I'd definitely run the hounds as two units, and from there you've got bikes, spawn, maulerfiend, plague marines, two units of hounds and the attached HQs all pushing forward to put pressure on the opponent which means the termies aren't going to be isolated and taking all of the enemy firepower when they arrive.

I think I'd prefer taking the terminators unmarked to be able to afford a unit of six. Losing the mark of nurgle very nearly gives you the points to do that*. Mark of nurgle, tzeentch and unmarked with a slightly larger squad all have their benefits but the bigger unit is always defensively useful, where the two marks depend on what they are being hit with. Plasma, power fists, demolisher cannons etc. don't care about the MoN, but tzeentch and a unit of six make the unit more durable. Massed small arms fire makes the mark of tzeentch redundant, but nurgle and a bigger unit are both handy. Not only is the unit of six always defensively relevant but of the three it's the only choice that boosts their offense with an extra axe and combi bolter. The obvious downside is you'd need to find a sixth terminator somewhere to make it happen

Similar advice on the bikes- losing the mark on the whole unit is very nearly enough to add two more bikes. Since you've got some khorne stuff mixed into the list I'm guessing it's not a deal breaker to have mark of nurgle on everything

I like the overall theme of the list, anyway. People say CC is dead but CSM (and daemons) can field a lot of point efficient units that can reliably reach combat on turn 2. Your army looks like it would be fun to use

*It pretty much does. Who doesn't have one point left over on their final army list?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
its not a problem to find the extra model for the termies, as i have 7 of everything.

so thats 7 termies, 7 bikes, 3x7 marines etc etc etc.
sadly the spawn can only be 5...

as for the khorne guys, im using the hounds from.... damn i lost the name... puppetwars!! all nurgled up, and the herald is a fantasy lord on a horse, with a scythe.
The one that come with a sign post saying kislev :)

anyhow.. ill think about marks and extra guys and mix about alittle and see what works best for me.
The hounds is staying in one group i think, as the re-roll to hit from the herald is quite neat.

I also like the really really big unit, as it seems to make ppl really really scared, and focus big time on it.
Leaving my chaos lords to their (messy) work.
at least, thats the plan. we shall see :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ohh and thx for all the feedback.

its nice to have ppl help out with the list, and work on the theme, instead of just saying, this and that is better, take that.

thx guys

much appreciated
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
I see your point with the hounds. Then, maybe a unit of five and a unit of fifteen? I'm thinking of opponents fielding MSU jetbikes- or generally just small scoring units that don't really warrant the attention of a hard hitting CC unit but need to be taken care of somehow

If the huge unit works for you then there's no reason to change it, but maybe it's something to consider in the future. After a game think whether a unit of 15 and 5 would have been better than the unit of 20. Maybe so if you lose a game because there's a ripper swarm sitting on an objective at the end

If you've got that extra terminator I'd use it! I'm interested to hear what other people think though. I quite like the MoN, but with the MoT I think a lot of the appeal is psychological. In reality boosting a 5+ invulnerable to 4+ is no different than going from no invulnerable to a 6+. Every time you roll you're still relying on a 1 in 6 chance of the expensive mark actually making a difference. And with an invulnerable it's not quite the same as an armour save where AP is a factor

Edit; It's always fun discussing lists!
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
In reality boosting a 5+ invulnerable to 4+ is no different than going from no invulnerable to a 6+.
While I agree that the effect is statistically the same, I'd argue that on an expensive unit with a 2+ armor save, such an improvement is markedly more useful (than, say, MoT on a cultist), given that the marginal benefit of the upgrade is well worth saving a Termi or two from the sort of specialized anti-Termi weaponry that's going to be flung at it.

I'm fine with a single blob of Hounds given that to take more units of them would require taking more Daemons detachments, which is looking unlikely in this list, to say the least. If you can find a way to stay in unit coherency, I'm always a fan of multi-assaults with such a large unit: you have enough attacks to crush two small targets with relative ease, even without your bonus assault ones. Plus a unit of 20 or 15 is damned well not going to give up First Blood against anything less than a 7 Wave Serpent list...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
While I agree that the effect is statistically the same, I'd argue that on an expensive unit with a 2+ armor save, such an improvement is markedly more useful (than, say, MoT on a cultist), given that the marginal benefit of the upgrade is well worth saving a Termi or two from the sort of specialized anti-Termi weaponry that's going to be flung at it.

I'm fine with a single blob of Hounds given that to take more units of them would require taking more Daemons detachments, which is looking unlikely in this list, to say the least. If you can find a way to stay in unit coherency, I'm always a fan of multi-assaults with such a large unit: you have enough attacks to crush two small targets with relative ease, even without your bonus assault ones. Plus a unit of 20 or 15 is damned well not going to give up First Blood against anything less than a 7 Wave Serpent list...
That's true about the MoT. That said, while it's a bit cheaper than nurgle I'd still find the six points to make an unmarked unit of six than a tzeentch unit of five.

Wow, I completely overlooked the fact he can't take more than one unit of hounds :(

One of the things that puts me off that big unit is the potential for something like a dreadnought, imperial knight, wraithlord or wraithknight to charge it and make the dogs useless. Is there any way of making a khorne herald a threat to AV12 or T8? If so, that would be a high priority for me so while the dogs are getting killed you could be doing some damage with the character. Alternatively I'd look to have a couple of strong CC threats elsewhere that could potentially charge in and go to work while the dogs act as a meatshield. A fisticlaws bike/jugger lord could be useful in that scenario

Anyway, multicharging would extremely useful on that hound blob
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
One of the things that puts me off that big unit is the potential for something like a dreadnought, imperial knight, wraithlord or wraithknight to charge it and make the dogs useless. Is there any way of making a khorne herald a threat to AV12 or T8? If so, that would be a high priority for me so while the dogs are getting killed you could be doing some damage with the character.
Ran into this issue against a Dreadknight. The Herald had a Greater Etherblade, so S6 AP2 Mastercrafted (S7 on the assault, but he didn't get it, what with the DK counter-assaulting after I wiped his Gk Termis and Librarian Warlord). That's enough to wound Riptides or Dreadknights on 4+, and glance AV12 on 6s (and there are just plain enough Hounds around that baring a disastrous boxcars Daemonic Instability test, no non-super-heavy walker or MC* will have enough attacks to wade through them all in a game). Against a Wraithknight, I think he might be better going for the Axe of Khorne on the Lesser Reward he has there, since S5 still wounds T8 on 6s--and the Axe of Khorne causes ID on 6s to wound.

The Imperial Knight... well, that's a bit more of a problem. You're still going to keep it absorbed for quite a few turns (again, barring boxcars--and probably all game if Be'lakor can spare an Invisibility for the challenge every now and then), since it's D-strength weapons can only kill 1 Hound per attack and its Stomp can't ID the Hounds. Still, it is a unit that costs slightly more than that Knight, and has no real way of touching it. Or Soul Grinders, or Ironclads. And they can't "our weapons are useless!" out, either. Your best bet would probably be to jump somebody like Be'lakor, Screamers, or Skarbrand (you know, the Armorbane brigade) in there to pump some pens into the AV13 walker.


*Barring something like Skarbrand with his 7 to 9 IDing Fleshbane attacks per phase, or something. There are always fringe cases. But I don't have to make that exception even for the anti-light-infantry-specialists the blenderfist Furiosos, I should think, given that I have a decent invuln, my Hounds aren't getting IDed by S6, and the Furioso needs to roll to hit on every new attack...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
Ran into this issue against a Dreadknight. The Herald had a Greater Etherblade, so S6 AP2 Mastercrafted (S7 on the assault, but he didn't get it, what with the DK counter-assaulting after I wiped his Gk Termis and Librarian Warlord). That's enough to wound Riptides or Dreadknights on 4+, and glance AV12 on 6s (and there are just plain enough Hounds around that baring a disastrous boxcars Daemonic Instability test, no non-super-heavy walker or MC* will have enough attacks to wade through them all in a game). Against a Wraithknight, I think he might be better going for the Axe of Khorne on the Lesser Reward he has there, since S5 still wounds T8 on 6s--and the Axe of Khorne causes ID on 6s to wound.

The Imperial Knight... well, that's a bit more of a problem. You're still going to keep it absorbed for quite a few turns (again, barring boxcars--and probably all game if Be'lakor can spare an Invisibility for the challenge every now and then), since it's D-strength weapons can only kill 1 Hound per attack and its Stomp can't ID the Hounds. Still, it is a unit that costs slightly more than that Knight, and has no real way of touching it. Or Soul Grinders, or Ironclads. And they can't "our weapons are useless!" out, either. Your best bet would probably be to jump somebody like Be'lakor, Screamers, or Skarbrand (you know, the Armorbane brigade) in there to pump some pens into the AV13 walker.


*Barring something like Skarbrand with his 7 to 9 IDing Fleshbane attacks per phase, or something. There are always fringe cases. But I don't have to make that exception even for the anti-light-infantry-specialists the blenderfist Furiosos, I should think, given that I have a decent invuln, my Hounds aren't getting IDed by S6, and the Furioso needs to roll to hit on every new attack...
Strength 6 is decent. Looking for 6 to wound/glance when flesh hounds are dying all around you isn't ideal but it's something. The axe of khorne seems like a better choice if you face Eldar a lot. Against a wraithknight the potential for instant death would surely scare away any T8 unit from engaging if they can avoid it

The stomp can ID the hounds if it rolls a 6, but just as often it'll roll a one and do nothing at all. The rest of the time S6 AP4 isn't that devastating even if it gets all three stomps. Having to damage AV13 is a nuisance, but like you said, Be'lakor or Skarbrand would be devastating.

Skarbrand is brutal. I know a unit without any particular speed or defensive strengths is going to be difficult to get into combat but I'm still surprised he doesn't appear in lists more often given he's nowhere near the sort of points Be'lakor, knights and the various superheavies cost. A Be'lakor/Skarbrand combo could be a nightmare if you can deepstrike him in and make him invisible. Good luck killing him in combat and even tarpitting with massed termagants seems ineffective given all of his attacks and re-rolls to hit.
 

·
Entropy Fetishist
Joined
·
4,249 Posts
The axe of khorne seems like a better choice if you face Eldar a lot.
And the nice thing is you only have to buy a Lesser Reward; swap it for an etherblade normally, if you like, but against Eldar, during warlord traits and psychic powers, you pick differently...

A Be'lakor/Skarbrand combo could be a nightmare if you can deepstrike him in and make him invisible.
I... may have a list to that effect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Chaos Lord: MoN, Bike, 4+ invul, Blight Grenades, L. Claws, Power Fist. 170

Chaos lord: Juggernaught, MoK, 4+ ward, Axe of Blind Fury ,melta bomb 175

6 bikes: MoN, Champion w. power fist and meltabomb, 2x meltagun 211

5 terminators 3x power weapon, MoN, 2x Chain fist 201

5 spawn 150

Maulerfiend 125

10 cultists 50

5 plague marines: 2xplasma gun, champ. w. melta bombs 155

Rhino 35



Allies:

Khorne Herald: Juggernought, Lesser reward, greater reward, locus of wrath. 155

18 hounds 288

3 nurglings 45



edit: changed cost of bike lord to the correct 170
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
oh and for skarbrand, someday im fielding a list with him and a grimoier, grimoir, how the hell do you spell that? the book anyhow.

Just to see if he cant make it in combat.
DAMN he is nasty. and those buffs around him... really really nasty to a cc list too.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top