[Warboss Dakka]

A discussion sprung up a while ago about space marines and their opening movie in DOW. People were musing about how a good sized Ork mob cut a full squad of marines apart. I quickly came the the orks defence and showed how there was no reason the marines should done as well as they did but the whole thing left me feeling like they might have a point. These marines, towering above their enemies with devestatingly powerful bolters, die by the droves. It seems like butchering whole companies of space marines is a perfectly normal occurance in 40k. While I understand why the game is balanced the way it is and why movie marines are a set of special rules and why all the other races can rain death down on marines... does anyone else feel that they've somehow lost that mystique about them being Gods among men?

Perhaps it is simply to do with the number of people that play them. Perhaps we've all played one too many battles with or against them. Perhaps they've become so run of the mill that our imaginations are failing to grasp the fact that these are towering warriors capable of laying waste to thousands of tyranids, whole mobs of orks and entire worlds of traitorous guard. When I first started 40k, I began with Crimson Fists. Reading the Space Marine fluff made me love playing them. Now, these several years later, I just feel like people are looking across the table at yet another marine player. It's disheartening.

 

[Elchimpster]

I think what a lot of folks fail to see is that the same squad of marines, while seeming put down was actually probably 50% combat effective at the point where the dude raised the banner at the end of the scene.

Due to them self healing and surviving things that would kill a normal man.

Of course, they don't want to give the impression that Astartes would walk through the same squad of orks. Maybe they wanted an even fight in the intro movie; give and take, orc goes down, a marine goes down so it seems like Orcs are cool to play too.

I mean, in DoW and in 40k on the table, an Astartes is a tough opponant. If you used some sort of campaign rule where after every battle a portion of your army that was "killed" is patched up and ready for the next fight...astartes would dominate due to their ungodly toughness, extra organs, self healing etc.

I dunno. I still think of Astartes as supermen, when on the field or in fluff, or in video games.

 

[uberschveinen]

In DoW terms, the key issue waas that the team that created the video had only two weeks to learn enough about 40K to make it, including the actual time to create the video.

Don't forget, though, for each piece of media undermining the Marines, there are two pages fanboy garbage overwhelming it.

 

[The Wraithlord]

Now, these several years later, I just feel like people are looking across the table at yet another marine player.

Unfortunately that is exactly what they are doing. Marines, either Imperial or Chaos are the primary sellers for GW and you just always feel like you are playing nothing but sometimes. Between that and game balance there is really nothing to show them as being so much more powerful than anything else as you have become accustomed to seeing your army die in front of your eyes

As for that DoW intro movie, I love it. I mean it just rocks, Marine death notwithstanding. Top notch quality. I for one wouldn't have a problem watching a movie for 40k at that quality level at all.

 

[Elchimpster]

A full feature length film, animated to the same quality as the DoW intro movie...I know 40k fans would dig it. Maybe even more, scooping up some of the sci-fi fringe folks. It's certainly on my "I Wish" list.

I mean, they are putting out a Dragons of Autumn Twilight (dragonlance) animated film, why not something 40k related?

 

[The Wraithlord]

They are??? Seriously??

/me begins to do his Dear God Please dance

 

[Elchimpster]

http://www.dragonlance-movie.com/
Fo reals

 

[The Wraithlord]

Kiefer Sutherland as Raistlin!!! Rino Romano as Caramon ......omg....omg...

...

(Drangonlance fanboy aneurism in progress)


....

 

[Warboss Dakka]

What the crap? I'd not heard about this either. Man I love the old Dragonlance novels.

 

[The Wraithlord]

Heh, we should take the Dragonlance stuff to a new thread and get back on topic, that being that Space Marines don't really seem like the Gods amoung men that they should be.

 

[uberschveinen]

That's often because they're up against other Marines, endless hordes of bugs, an ancient race with technology thousands of years better and vast amounts of experience, sixty million yesr old robots from the most technologically advanced society ever to emerge in the galaxy, and an irritating that that's far more powerful in rules terms than it should be.

Then, they fight IG, and they feel right again.

 

[Kayback]

Yeah, in the board game everything is more or less balanced.

It sucks, IMHO they took a couple of steps backwards when they oversimplified from 2nd ed. The races having different movement for one example.

They've now standardised it. Drawing everything closer together.

The differences between the armies is hardly worth noticing any more.

KBK

 

[pathwinder14]

Now, these several years later, I just feel like people are looking across the table at yet another marine player.

Unfortunately that is exactly what they are doing. Marines, either Imperial or Chaos are the primary sellers for GW...

If you look closely enough GW really wants you to have two armies; a marine army and something else.

 

[Warboss Dakka]

I think that's the case as well, and they have pretty much gotten that out of the player base. I don't know many long term players who don't play marines of one flavor or another. I wish they'd gone a different direction with Tau, but it is nice to see something besides marines once in a while.

 

[Anphicar]

What the crap? I'd not heard about this either. Man I love the old Dragonlance novels.

Agreed!

OMG.

Im so excited!

 

[Cadian81st]

Now, these several years later, I just feel like people are looking across the table at yet another marine player.

Unfortunately that is exactly what they are doing. Marines, either Imperial or Chaos are the primary sellers for GW...

If you look closely enough GW really wants you to have two armies; a marine army and something else.

God that's so true.

 

[TwistedDarkness]

I think Space Marines are very inaccurately portrayed in the Video Games and even some books. An Astartes is a god, his armor impenetrable, his weapon the Emperor's Wrath Incarnate. He can breathe easy, even when his trachea is severed. He can eat an enemy and live his memories. He can ignore wounds that would kill a man many times. He is an unstoppable force of the Emperor's Will.

 

[uberschveinen]

Good luck portraying that in a game where stats effectively have four values for almost every unit.

 

[LongBeard]

He can breathe easy, even when his trachea is severed. He can eat an enemy and live his memories. He can ignore wounds that would kill a man many times. He is an unstoppable force of the Emperor's Will.

But yet can still go down to a conscripts bayonet!
Enough said! :wink:

 

[Elchimpster]

Guess that was the emperor's will too.


Thing is. Astartes are supermen. Sure they are. But the galaxy is filled with badass xenos, and heretics.

SM usually take out a number of bugs, waste Tau in CC, waste IG or traitor guard. All the Xenos though are the Uber enemies. You think there are only Tyrannids, Necrons, Tau, Eldar and Orcs around? I'm sure there are lots of unwritten races that don't even make a footnote in the history books. The five main Xenos races are the really big and powerful ones, and it makes sense that it would take humanities finest defenders (Astartes) to equal them where it takes a vast number of humanities standard forces to even hold them at bay (IG).

Anyhow, that's the perspective I take with Astartes. I still see them as superheroes.

Am I in de Nile?

[don't answer that]