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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This will be a discussion about the five best and/or the most "broken" units in 5E. I think this would help those of you that are new to Warhammer 40k 5E. Many times as I was playing, it would have been nice to know what to watch out for, before I found an amazing unit destroying my army. I want to hear from you, the players, the ones that spend their days playing and facing the best. I want to know why you think a unit should be the best or not the best but in the top five. You can submit your top five or just what you think is the best. I just want to know why. Why said unit(s) is the most versatile, the strongest, and/or the best at doing a certain job? If you disagree with someone then you must give good reasoning why you think so.

I will start the ball rolling.
CSM - Daemon Prince
With many marks, psyker powers and wargear that the Daemon Prince can take, this allows the Daemon Prince many roles which he can play in your army. Not only a strong Monstrous Creature that can take on some units 1v1 but also a great supporting unit. Even with no upgrades the Daemon Prince can cause havoc. A Lash Prince with wings can give the Daemon Prince a 20" - 30" threat range for assault as well as the ability to move the enemy where you want them. So you can get a better shot or just so you can delay the enemy for just one more turn. All of this makes the Chaos Space Marines Daemon Prince the best unit.
 

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Possesed Chaos Marines!!!!!!!:p

Ok now i'm fine. Personaly people who "Spam" the best units arn't in the game to have so much but more to win and that is somethign i dislike so i rarely use the "elites" and when i do i often use them in diffrent ways
 

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Nothing in the game is really "broken".

Some units are insanely effective (eg Nob Bikers), but they are also insanely expensive.

The best units are ones that are cheap and solid. Nothing "broken" about them, just efficient for their points (eg MeltaVets).

Daemon Princes are nowhere near as good as they were in 4th ed.
 

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These are units that just annoy me more then others.

1. The Ork Boy is a dream troop. Cheap as shit, fast, very good on the charge, and can hide Power Klaw/Heavy Weapons.

2. Warboss, and Nob Bikers - Toughness 5, 3 or 4 + cover, 5 + invulnerable, Feel No Pain, plenty of allocate wound abuse manipulations, very good at destroying most units in the game, and can score. Very annoying and hard to deal with if you roll bad when it counts.

3. Vendetta - Breaks my heart as an Eldar player. Fast skimmer, decent armor, transports units, incredible AV firepower, and cheap. Did I mention it can be taken in squadrons

4. Farseer and Warlocks on bikes. Almost as problematic as Nob Bikers, but not quite as good.

5. Tervigon - He can generate troops each turn until his power is disabled, can issue feel no pain to a different unit each turn, and is on a T6 3+ Save platform. I've witnessed a player produce 95 gaunts in 1 game. I rank him in at 5 only because he's unpredictable.
 

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in going to have to go with the DP on this one, vertatile, powerful. if there were ever a unit to take when starting this would be it, it is harder to screw up with this unit than (i think) most others. He's tough enough and resiliant enough to hold his own and provide great support to many units.
 

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I wouldn't call the DP broken, simply because his Toughness isn't that great for a MC. He only gets T6 if you take Nurgle, and even then anything S7+ can take him down fairly reliably since he only has a 5+ invul to defend against missiles/plasma.

Tzeentch builds get the nice 4++, but then S7 wounds on a 2+ and his role gets oddly split between dakka (which isn't that great other than Warptime/Winds) and CC.

Slaanesh gets Lash. Woop-diddly-doo. Everyone has long since learned to Mech up, so Lash's effectiveness had dropped sharply. This build is also very vulnerable, not benefiting from either MON or MOT. One thing i think is forgotten with Lash is that it has the same max range as Plasma, which is the perfect DP killing tool (this depends on the army, i personally take LOTS of plasma).

Khorne Princes are like that huge angry guy we all knew in High School who tried to bully people, but could be distracted for hours by simple logic puzzles, effectivly neutalising his threat. In game terms, you pay alot for little benefit and no versatility.

Unmarked Warptime/Wings are a bargain, but again not that huge of a threat due to relative squishyness.
 

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Broken seems like almost too harsh a word for the problems surrounding a DP,
he can be cheap, but with Wings, MOT, Warptime, Bolt of Change, is 200pts.Thats for Eternal Warrior, T5 W4 Inv 4+ and a re-rollable Str8 AP 1 Shot, so thats roughly right points wise (about 20pts more would and only one per army would prob be fairer!), especially as we have no other real MC units.

The problem is the pricing of Lords and Sorcers which in comparison are nearly always only a few points away from being upgraded with Eternal Warrior, T5, 4 W and get a power or two of their choosing

Some of the Tyranids are a bit broken, the Doom of Malantai is a pain.

But more importantly Tervigons, T6 W6 as troop choices when Termagaunts are taken, constantly spawning 3 D6 of yet more Termagaunts which can move the turn they arrive, and then being able to confer feel no pain or furious charge on a unit of Termagaunts seems undercosted for what it does. Objective games are fun with even two of these guys (sarcasm). Basically what it means is you can take a Nidzilla list, two of these plus x2 20 Termagaunt squads which are very cheap and get loads more by the time you have advanced onto an objective. And because there are so many other big targets, Mawlocs, Hive Tyranid, Warriors, Tyrgon Primes, Zoanthropes you can focus fire on the Tervigons. That just sucks.

Blood Angels Vindicators are broken to, move 12" and fire your 24" large blast template of death ... F*** Off! Although these guys entire codex (and fluff, Necrons anyone?) is a bit suspicious at times. Which is a shame because the more I read of the old fluff the more I kind of enjoy these guys, even if they and their primarch are too good to be true sometimes. But always remember, when you lose to them as a CSM player, simply say "Yeah well your Primarch was still b*tch slapped by Horus causing your entire legion to go bonkers, you smarmy bunch of ...."
 

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There are several units that fundamentally altered the metagame in recent history:

-TH/SS termies (cheap, insanely durable against terminators' and marines' traditional weaknesses)
-Veterans with 3x special weapons in Chimera (incredibly cheap for what they do)
-Lash Prince (in 4th this guy was a game-changer, but now in the mech environment of 5th has lost much of his effectiveness)
-Nob Bikers (every competitive list needs a Nob Biker contingency)

I'm stuck on the 5th one.
-Eldrad is horrendously good, able to make large swaths of an Eldar army extremely killy or incredibly resilient (rerolling 4+ cover saves on falcons with holofields is retardedly tough to kill.)
-Jetseer council is good on paper but gets shut down hard by psychic hoods and the like. Eldrad can at least stay out of hood range.

Nothing else I'd complain of being too broken. There are some units that are very good, and better than their equivalents in other armies like grey hunters, ork boyz, missile long fangs, vendettas, or tervigons, but they all have exploitable weaknesses and haven't altered the metagame much if at all. Vendettas are great but get shot of the sky quickly, tervigons are easily handled in close combat and not that resistant to being shot either for how much of a lynchpin they are for nids, Ork boyz die in droves to things like berzerkers, missile long fangs are cheap as chips for what they are but can by wiped out by other long ranged weapons, etc.
 

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.But, I must admit the Obliterator should also be considered.
Hold on a second here, as CSM players we have one of the worst codex in terms of playability and fluff. Fluff obviously has nothing to do with this topic, but in terms of playability I'm not refering to its strength (although compared to newer codexes it is weak) but we have very few units that can be reliably used in an all commers tournament enviroment.

Long story short, in no way are Obliterators broke, they cost 75pts with slow and purposeful and multiple weaponry. But they can be instant killed, can die by bolter fire (admittedly difficult) and any dedicated CC troops destroys them. The only real pro they have is being able to mutate different weapons, but in the context of the codex, we lack so few reliable other options, that we need it. Our Land Raiders suck without POTM, WTF are chosen? 18 points for regular CSM with outflank and scout ooooohhhhh, no psychic defences at all, a dreadnought that goes crazy and no drop pods of any sort?

My friend I'm not picking on you or your opinion, but I completely disagree.

So far I think Tervigons and Biker Nobz are the two must haves on this Top 5 list IMO.
 

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Have to say that even though my Daemons armies get stomped by CSM DP with Lash and Obliterators (undo my run after deepstrike and flamer me to crap or just unleash hordes of plasma on the MCs, no transports for protection, Lash makes it mathematically unlikely that any of greater Daemons, even with flight, never get the charge, it's possibly one of the most one sided match-ups I can think of), when I'm running most MEQ lists I'm totally meched up and Lash Princes are just unexciting, especially since they're usually accompanied by multiple squads of Oblits, which usually amount to 3 lascannons or multi-meltas into the front armor of up to 3 targets each turn, something that good placement and popping smoke nearly nullifies and that a well built mech list just doesn't feel threatened by.

Oblits are cool because they...
-can Las at range, MM up close for vehicles.
-can plasma cannon or flamer grouped infantry.
-can TLPlasma MCs.
Oblits are not cool because they...
-cost a whole lot.
-can't split fire.
-produce a rather low shot volume if a Lash Prince isn't available to scrunch up infantry targets.
 

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I think the Dark Eldar Haemonculs for his support abilities will be quite a threat aswell as the Cronos Pain Machine
 

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Eldrad, Vulkan, Nob Bikers, Razorspam Blood Angels.
How the heck did I forget Vulkan? Twin linking all flamers (for hordes), meltas (for mech), makes thunderhammers master crafted, and he's no pushover in combat. For that price he is a steal and should be added to the list.

Why is everyone saying Eldrad, what does he do, I've never seen him used before?
 

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Why Razorspam Blood Angels? I dont get it, since you can just Lance or melta or Lascannon them to hell with ease. Plus they arent assult vehilces so what ever is in it is a sitting duck when it comes out willing or forced
 

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Why Razorspam Blood Angels? I dont get it, since you can just Lance or melta or Lascannon them to hell with ease. Plus they arent assult vehilces so what ever is in it is a sitting duck when it comes out willing or forced
Yes, but 165 points for a 5-man squad with Meltagun that counts as scoring plus a Razorback with TL Assault Cannon is amazing.
Add onto that the fact that it can move 12" and still fire makes it extremely efficient for its points.

The only unit that comes close to it for efficiency is MeltaVets in Chimeras.
Both units cost similar points, but have their upsides and downsides.

But by no means is either unit "broken" as such, but they are extremely efficient units for their points.

Good solid efficient units are the ones that win games.
"Broken" units and "one-trick-ponys" can always be countered (such as NobBikers, Lash, Doom, etc), but solid core units are always the ones that shine and win games RELIABLY. :eek:k:
 

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The Black Templars Emperor's Champion!
At the cost of 14 Firewarriors with the Accept any Challenge Vow, gives the whole army preffered enemy! Also, his own abilities are great! S6 PW, WS6, 4 attacks on the charge, 2+ and 4++ in cc, I5 and an enemy IC hunter! He is the bomb! Stick him in a big squad or with some cc termies and he will destroy you! :D
 

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God-damned razorbacks of SW and BA

Long Fangs with x5 Missiles

Grey Hunters

Guard Veterans with x3 special weapons in Chimera

Tervigons
Seriously you're going to look me dead in the eye and say I can pay 130ish points for five missiles that can pick different targets. And I can take three of them.

Grey hunters=best marines ever, effectively terminators for one turn of the game(only die on the roll of a 2), and get an aspiring champion's statline for 18 points(damn wolf guard).

Guard veterans single handedly ruined the game for non mech armies, it made the standard ig infantry ridiculously effective by minimizing the cost, and maximizing the payload(Bs4!? THREE WEAPONS!? And they can all fire out of a chimera? blaaauurgh)

Tervigons are just straight up gay on wheels. The damn things are all t6 with six wounds and a 3+ save. So basically six nurgle bikers all squished together that ignore ID due to toughness. THEN! On top of that, it poops objective grabbers with 3s across the board.

Alone I'd pay for just the model and his buffs, but now he MAKES the goddamn things? Oh, and the best part?
He gives every guant squad within 6" every special rule in the BRB except jetbike. Seriously, he's giving five point models feel no pain(Psychic test, one target), furious charge, poison, and they already have move through cover? Ugh.
The worst part of it is that the stupid guants can daisy chain back, and when they hit marines they're rerolling 4's to wound(Due to stacked furious charge and poison) That's disgusting and really forces more mechlists.
I swear that ig codex writer just gets his jollies off watching fleets of tanks considering he wrote two books that are exceptional at killing anyone not inside them.


Oh and the Emperor's Champion? He's actually a magical magician. See most people when they assault make a 6" consolidate or charge right? Well let's say he's at the back of a 20 man squad at max cohesion, so when the first guy in the line charges he's somewhere in the ballpark of 60" away from combat?
Let's say that combat includes an enemy ic.

The Emperor's Champion will instantly teleport from one end of the line to the other moving models out of the way to "get to grips with his foe". Thank god for outdated rules, right?
 
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