Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So according to sources the dark age of technology was from M15 to roughly M25, give or take a few years.

What is used in 40K for tech is scraps and shadows compared to what they once had.
Their tech level was high enough that nearly 20K years later scraps are still useful enough to slow the imperiums death.
According to sources they lost allot due to an AI revolt infecting the men of iron, no information is given as to why it happened, you'd think humans during that time would be genre savvy enough to realize that it was a possibility.

Since GW probably is never going to advance the plot why not rewind it, have a warhammer 20K where we get to read stories about humanity at the pinnacle of their technological power.

These few scraps of information got me curious about what it was like and honestly I have an awesome idea for a men of iron story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
437 Posts
Sounds like a cool idea to me, especially if they could link in what the Emperor was doing during this time. For all we know the Emperor actually led Mankind during this time since it makes sense he would lead them at the height of their powers.

The story could be written he retreated back into the shadows after this first Empire collapsed due to the Iron Men. After all it's been written (in Mechanicum I think) that the Emperor fought various mechanical enemies at times, imprisoning the Void Dragon on Mars to preserve the knowledge in order to set up the Adeptus Mechanicus.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,978 Posts
The Dragon was imprisoned long before mankind had any technology to speak of, during the middle ages in fact, giving rise to the legend of St George (or so it is hinted).

It's even possible that the Dragon had more to do with Mankind's Fall after the Age of Technology than the current lore says. The Men of Iron sound similar to something approaching necrons, and it is possible that the technology to build them came from the dreams of the c'tan shard as it remembered its much older servants.

Whether or not it directly or perhaps indirectly sparked their rebellion is a matter of speculation. It is known that they became self aware at some point, Rise of the Machines style and drove Mankind into a regressive state and imbuing them with a fear of technology. The only individuals who would have knowledge of those times are the Emperor, the Dragon itself and it is hinted certain high ranking members of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,353 Posts
The Dragon was imprisoned long before mankind had any technology to speak of, during the middle ages in fact, giving rise to the legend of St George (or so it is hinted).

It's even possible that the Dragon had more to do with Mankind's Fall after the Age of Technology than the current lore says. The Men of Iron sound similar to something approaching necrons, and it is possible that the technology to build them came from the dreams of the c'tan shard as it remembered its much older servants.
It wasn't so much as hinted as thrown in your face. I thought it was also stated by the void dragons keeper that it was the presence of the void dragon on mars that kept the Sol system from losing ALL it's technology. This is going by a 4/5 year memory though.


The end of the dark age was between 23-25M do to several reasons. The Iron Men rebelling, I know some people are going to hate me for this, but they were like the matrix world, they came to rely on the AI infused robots for everything from manual labor to basic defense. So eventually the Iron men started to think they were better than humans and grew tired of being treated poorly so one day one rebelled and then a chain reaction. The sudden appearance of human psykers which cut of many trade routs TO Terra and resulted in mass starvation and the resulting things that come with it. The slow divergence of abhumans and then the sudden massive warp storms were the death knell of the Dark Age. Big Book ed6
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The Dragon was imprisoned long before mankind had any technology to speak of, during the middle ages in fact, giving rise to the legend of St George (or so it is hinted).

It's even possible that the Dragon had more to do with Mankind's Fall after the Age of Technology than the current lore says. The Men of Iron sound similar to something approaching necrons, and it is possible that the technology to build them came from the dreams of the c'tan shard as it remembered its much older servants.

Whether or not it directly or perhaps indirectly sparked their rebellion is a matter of speculation. It is known that they became self aware at some point, Rise of the Machines style and drove Mankind into a regressive state and imbuing them with a fear of technology. The only individuals who would have knowledge of those times are the Emperor, the Dragon itself and it is hinted certain high ranking members of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Personally I was thinking that the AI that controlled the men of iron discovered the threat of chaos and acted in an attempt to stop what was about to happen.

After all an AI would in theory have the ability to root out psykers and deal with them before they're a threat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,353 Posts
Personally I was thinking that the AI that controlled the men of iron discovered the threat of chaos and acted in an attempt to stop what was about to happen.

After all an AI would in theory have the ability to root out psykers and deal with them before they're a threat.
How would it be able to tell nonpsykers from latent. Also psykers didn't arise till either after or around the same time, as the rise of psykers coincided to the build up to the fall of the eldar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
my assumptions about the Men of Iron is that they were the "androids" from Space Crusade which were the eventual creation of GW coming up with the Necrons...i always thought it was strange that there isnt a more apparent AI angle (other then the Machine Spirit) so having more stories about this kind of stuff would be awesome
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How would it be able to tell nonpsykers from latent. Also psykers didn't arise till either after or around the same time, as the rise of psykers coincided to the build up to the fall of the eldar.
Perhaps there was some sort of sign that it was going to happen? Perhaps a friendly eldar farseer saw the future and warned a human about it, they them ordered the AI to try and do something about it.

It's fairly vague as to what happened, which makes for awesome stories.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Well even the AI's are not proof against chaos. Theres been many stories with corrupted AIs. The Castigator, the Kaban Machine. The men of iron STC assembler Gaunt and company found.

And there was a comic with a squad of Arbites trying to prevent a mechanicus team from opening a machine tomb that had been sealed for 20.000 years. Which turned out to be contain a highly malevolent AI, that in its own words said that its creators had imprisoned it, because they were afraid of what they had wrough..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
While it could be interesting for those of us that are super deep into the 40k lore, I would imagine that the 20k universe is just a little too far removed from the things that really characterize the 40k (and 30k) universe.

No Space Marines, no Imperium, no or little meaningful Chaos presence, no diverse selection of Xenos races trying to wipe out humanity. Honestly, the Dark Age of technology sounds incredibly similar to me to the "Butlerian Jihad" Dune novels (which are very good, btw) and not like something that would easily integrate into the current Black Library portfolio.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,353 Posts
Perhaps there was some sort of sign that it was going to happen? Perhaps a friendly eldar farseer saw the future and warned a human about it, they them ordered the AI to try and do something about it.

It's fairly vague as to what happened, which makes for awesome stories.
The farseers didn't appear till shortly before the fall of the eldar which didn't occur till 30M, theres a 5M discrepancy, remember the original farseers were doomsayers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
While it could be interesting for those of us that are super deep into the 40k lore, I would imagine that the 20k universe is just a little too far removed from the things that really characterize the 40k (and 30k) universe.

No Space Marines, no Imperium, no or little meaningful Chaos presence, no diverse selection of Xenos races trying to wipe out humanity. Honestly, the Dark Age of technology sounds incredibly similar to me to the "Butlerian Jihad" Dune novels (which are very good, btw) and not like something that would easily integrate into the current Black Library portfolio.
There's tons of things to do.

Gaunts ghosts, ciaphas cain, Ravenor, Eisenhorn are all stores that don't directly feature astartes. Yet they are good reads.

Why couldn't we have stories about elite spec op teams performing missions? After all the eldar at their almost worse and orks who had centuries to grow would be around.

Hell the squats could make appearances, or any made up alien species, the idea would be to show how the galaxy got to the point it is in 30K.

The farseers didn't appear till shortly before the fall of the eldar which didn't occur till 30M, theres a 5M discrepancy, remember the original farseers were doomsayers.
Forgot about that, replace farseer with someone who saw visions of the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
There's tons of things to do.

Gaunts ghosts, ciaphas cain, Ravenor, Eisenhorn are all stores that don't directly feature astartes. Yet they are good reads.

Why couldn't we have stories about elite spec op teams performing missions? After all the eldar at their almost worse and orks who had centuries to grow would be around.

Hell the squats could make appearances, or any made up alien species, the idea would be to show how the galaxy got to the point it is in 30K.
But all of the books you mentioned still have the distinct grimdark feel of the 40k universe, which is one that is full of despair, superstition, fanaticism and a complete disregard for human life enforced by an ancient an unwieldy bureaucratic monolithic government.

All these elements have their roots in the Emperor's founding of the Imperium.

I'm sure you could still do books in 20k, but humanity was in a very different place at that time and I don't think it would have very many themes in common with the 30k and 40k novels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Personally I was thinking that the AI that controlled the men of iron discovered the threat of chaos and acted in an attempt to stop what was about to happen.

After all an AI would in theory have the ability to root out psykers and deal with them before they're a threat.
I like this idea. It would have more meaning, to those of who know what happens, that the AIs that Humanity created coalesced and came to understand the Warp, eventually saw the future, and realized that the Emperor and Humanity must be destroyed before the horrors of the 41st Millennium.

Edit: And by traditional 40k irony (despite not being near 40k), their actions ultimately lead to everything that happened. Humanity's fear of technology, machine spirits (the monolithic AI being broken down into primitive subforms), ect, ect. Hilarious and all that jazz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
I like this idea. It would have more meaning, to those of who know what happens, that the AIs that Humanity created coalesced and came to understand the Warp, eventually saw the future, and realized that the Emperor and Humanity must be destroyed before the horrors of the 41st Millennium.
But even AIs are not impervious to chaos. Whos not to say that the original AIs truly was corrupted by chaos?

Which reminds me of the old Ravenloft DnD setting, the Demiplane of Dread. If you create a golem, or any other artificial being, it -will- be inhabited by a malicious entity eventually seeking to destroy its creator.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
But all of the books you mentioned still have the distinct grimdark feel of the 40k universe, which is one that is full of despair, superstition, fanaticism and a complete disregard for human life enforced by an ancient an unwieldy bureaucratic monolithic government.

All these elements have their roots in the Emperor's founding of the Imperium.

I'm sure you could still do books in 20k, but humanity was in a very different place at that time and I don't think it would have very many themes in common with the 30k and 40k novels.
You could set the books to have several different back stories for example one could be set to follow a random civilian as they reap the joys of all this technology and basically showing that life is pretty well.

Then you could have a story by a black ops operator showing the things that happens behind the scenes
to ensure that they have their life.

The joy of the horus heresy series is that life looks good and the heresy seems like a small thing on the galactic scale, we know just how bad it's going to get but there's nothing that can be done to change it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,195 Posts
Why would we need to move 20k years to visit high tech humans? Didn't the legions during the great crusade encounter small human cultures and empires that had progressed far beyond that of DAoT humanity but destroyed them and any trace of their tech. Would be nice to have a novel that showed the battle against such an empire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Why would we need to move 20k years to visit high tech humans? Didn't the legions during the great crusade encounter small human cultures and empires that had progressed far beyond that of DAoT humanity but destroyed them and any trace of their tech. Would be nice to have a novel that showed the battle against such an empire.
Auretian Technocrazy that Horus destroyed. Or the cyberphiles encountered by Russ and the Space wolves in Prospero Burns.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top