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Dazed and confused.
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8,496 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
And I thought it had all been resolved in their favour. Apparently not.

Our assets have been frozen.
Yes, thats pretty much the issue. Many of you may know that Games Workshop has been in a legal battle with us for almost 4 years now.. maybe its 5...
Anyways, they have asked the courts to freeze our assets and this has happened, this happened early September, not long after I posted the photos of the last set of products that were being produced and almost ready to ship.
What does this mean? #1 we have no means to ship or produce or pay for anything... and I mean anything, internet, phone, gas, nothing. We cant use or accept funds (well technically we can accept but I wont do that without a means to ship out new orders).
#2 the demon lines are sitting at the casters, waiting to be shipped but not able to be shipped to us. Even if they were shipped to me, I couldnt ship them out since they are technically "assets" and I am not allowed to ship them out.
#3 the company infrastructure, email, website, is pretty much frozen.
I am flying out (which GW allowed us to buy a ticket) to chicago next week to step in front of the courts and plead my case to have assets released and do business as normal until the appeal is addressed.
For those of you who are understandably upset, I am sorry, this has been a long and hard road and many of you have stood by me. I wish it was better but its been very stressful and now I have learned that its not only my company at risk but my personal assets and home are being threatened as well now.
Ill do my best to keep you all apprised.
And to be clear, no orders were taken after I found about about the freeze mid september.
Any orders that have issues were due to customers not putting in correct addresses and a new shipment needing to be sent (and couldnt due to the freeze).
Or lost orders in the postal system.
Nick
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152689364295795&id=159482580794&fref=nf
 

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Heresy Online's Pet Furby
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8,723 Posts
I wish it was better but its been very stressful and now I have learned that its not only my company at risk but my personal assets and home are being threatened as well now

Well done there GW. You are fucking stars..... *slow claps* :no:
 

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Dazed and confused.
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8,496 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well done there GW. You are fucking stars..... *slow claps*
I'm in two minds on this one. No one wants to see him lose his home, and what he does has no real impact on GW's bottom line, but at the same time he knew he was walking a legal tight rope, and continued to produce after receiving, by all accounts a shit ton, of C&D orders.
 

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Premium Member
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12,830 Posts
Dickhead is a dickhead and gets treated by dickheads as a dickhead.

I feel little sympathy outside of "ouch dude, I'm sorry you no longer have the brains you were born with". If you're making shady business practice and have your home set down as capital against that business, you kind of deserve what you get. That he continued to risk not only his own home, but that of his family, and then appoint the blame is pure and utter cowardice.

Considering the well known heavy handedness with which GW treats its IP, and the lengths it goes to to protect that IP (such as going as far as changing the name of part of its product line from Imperial Army to Astra Militarum, and removing access to "units" in the game which do not have a dedicated corresponding model or ensuring that such "units" do have a model), you'd have to be fucking special to continue to flagrantly breach C&D orders, especially when you are attempting to use the ongoing legal battle as "free" advertising (who honestly heard of chapterhouse until chapterhouse brought peoples attention to it?) and piggyback sales off it.



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With Vaz on this.

Chapterhouse have been on the IP tightrope for years and know full well that GW aren't exactly the type to piss off.

Unfortunate but absolutely predictable.
 

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Based on all the hubbub and drama surrounding GW and IP, I am absolutely amazed these guys have been in operation for as long as they have. I've had people tell me that a non-commercial fan game not even directly related to existing GW games will bring down a C&D, but these guys were flat out casting models? Holy cow.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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What you get for being a dumbass. I'm not sure it's an option at this point but I'd say it's time to chuck in the towel and move the fuck on.
 

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I find it difficult to sympathise with either party. Chapterhouse is completely in the wrong and GW absolutely has the right to defend it's IP, but As always GW has a public image on par with baby-eating nazis. I wish they'd just fuck each other and get it over with.
 

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Super Moderator
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10,978 Posts
I wonder what this means for all the other third party minis we've seen lately, if GW will go after these companies next?

We should get our orders done with them while GW is still beating CH down. :wink:
 

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nice boy, daft though !
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10,212 Posts
I wonder what this means for all the other third party minis we've seen lately, if GW will go after these companies next?

We should get our orders done with them while GW is still beating CH down. :wink:
I don't think it will change anything, the other indies have for the most part played ball and kept away from blatantly ripping of GW and more importantly kept away from using copyright and trade marks , Scibor has been doing compatible bitz longer than chapterhouse and has avoided a trip to court, now they are a thriving respected brand , same for Kromlek etc



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Critique for da CriticGod
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First and foremost I think is bad for the consumer if this has a chilling effect on the 3rd party market.

As far as Chapterhouse goes it's not terribly surprising. It's been a while since I heard anything about their legal battle. The last news I recall from maybe a year or more ago was much more in favor of chapterhouse.

I think Chapterhouse stepped over the line and I don't really like their products, but I like that they were part of the wave of producers opening up the market for 3rd party pieces.

And GW have borrowed so much of their IP from other sources (books, movies, etc.) that I'm always amazed at the vigor with which they defend their stolen goods.
 

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It all depends on if, in the eyes of the court, if an IP or copyright was infringed upon. What CH did was brazen and deserves the hammer. As an artist, and one who works closely in the IP and copyright field, I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO sympathy for Chapterhouse. Especially when you're going up againsr a company like GW that is known to be territorial and aggressive about depending things they own the copyright for(which is how they are able to mount these legal battles, by owning the copyright).
 

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Critique for da CriticGod
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It all depends on if, in the eyes of the court, if an IP or copyright was infringed upon. What CH did was brazen and deserves the hammer. As an artist, and one who works closely in the IP and copyright field, I have ABSOLUTELY ZERO sympathy for Chapterhouse.
I would agree Chapterhouse was foolhardy.

However I find this concerning. The interesting thing about US IP law as I understand it is that nothing is certain until decided by a court. And the concept that people (in general, not chapterhouse in particular) shouldn't make 3rd party pieces because GW might get ornery is garbage.

Especially when you're going up against a company like GW that is known to be territorial and aggressive about depending things they own the copyright for(which is how they are able to mount these legal battles, by owning the copyright).
My further understanding was that GW miscalculated the differences between USA and UK IP law and what is required to demonstrate ownership and therefore infringement beyond that. Not that I agree with chapterhouse, but I recall the case wasn't open and shut, and was much more nuanced.

Having an aggressive legal department doesn't make a company right, but it does give them an advantage in attrition.

Between the 2 I like/support GW more than Chapterhouse, but between GW and independents and their ability to produce their own add-ons/similar units, I support the independents.
 

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I didn't intend to say that the bigger legal prowess is right, I meant, if you flash in the face of a company that is as aggressive as GW, don't be shocked when you get a C&D letter (which Chapterhouse surely got, and likely ignored as this issue made it to court).

There is no doubt that the translation between US and UK copyright laws could get a bit lost, but that end of the legal spectrum I am pretty fuzzy on. Here in the US, you have to apply for Copyrights, and once you get it then it's yours (pending renewall). This will give you the upper hand when it gets to court, but in the end, if challenged or disputed in any way, a court will have to decide issues like that, but the US Copyright office is the one to hand out the initial copyright.

Indie model makers shouldn't fear as long as they tend to their own ideas and not step on other companies toes(not just GW).
 

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Critique for da CriticGod
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I think that's fair.
 

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Jeep's and Harley's
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Funny thing about the US Copyright thing ... GW did apply for some copyrights and were denied for things like Roman Numerals and other things. The courts sanctioned GW Counsel because they tried to hide this during discovery and CH ended up finding out about it. The vast majority of the claims GW brought were denied (something like 70% IIRC) and the rest have been taken to appeals.

Do I think that what CH has done was illegal? Not sure. I did read court transcripts that said that GW tried to pull a bunch of shiesty shit and got caught. My real problem with this harkens back to the old fight between K&N air filters and the big three of Detroit. They tried to stop K&N from offering an aftermarket filter that would fit your car. They wanted to force the consumer to purchase air filters from them. The big three went as far as to deny warranties if people were using a K&N air filter.

After a lengthy court battle the verdict that came down was one that came to this: If the big three wanted to void warranties because people were using aftermarket air filters, then the big three had to provide air filters to their customers, free of charge, to the customers for the life of the warranty.

This was a boon for the customers as it allowed an aftermarket product that would not void warranties. In this case it allows aftermarket parts for the miniature market, which is a fairly small market anyways, as GW has had the problem of releasing rules but not models for their games.

On a side note ... I find it funny that they refuse to call their miniatures toys in the UK because if they do then they are not covered under the IP laws.
 
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