Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My friends think blood angels should only be all about assault and close combat, but after seeing so many blood angels lists, I feel like they have become more of a shooty army. Hell, I know some people who would even say they are better as a shooty army. What do you guys think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
It's not exactly a popular way to play them, but I'm trying to put together a more shooty BA list at the moment. I'm hoping to actually play with it in the next few weeks - I'll post up reports if/when I do.

:cyclops:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
my feelings are, if you have an adequate amount of assault marines for a counter charge, a shooty gunline tactic blood angel army should work great.
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
Two words: Mobile Melta

Blood angels as a static fire list can work, but are wasting potential. We have 50 point multimelta attack bikes, you've got Veteran Assault and honour guard that can carry meltaguns and storm bolters (and regular bolters for that matter), you can do combat squads with a meltagun and a fist in transport and the heavy weapon and 4 expendable wounds hanging back.

Blood angels make absolutely killer mobile fire lists.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
I must have missed something there: yet again (read your history books people!), Galahad baffles the Orc with transport rules.

Are you saying that with a tac squad using the 'combat squads' rule, not only can the two parts move seperately, but that one of the squads can embark in a transport? I mean logically, it makes sense, it's just another sort of movement, but I'd not picked up on that.

I really must go and read the BA 'codex' ('codeculus'? 'codecil'?) more closely...

Oh no I can't have a cyclops!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
The DA's codex states that certain squads can be split down into combat squads and deployed separately. Therefore one combat squad can deploy 'outside' of a dedicated transport. Whether this applies to BA's I can't say, but if it's the same rules for combat squads as the DA's then Gal's correct.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
Yeah, I'm pretty certain that 1 - the rules are the same; and 2 - Galahad's correct. He generally is. It had never occurred to me is all - not played Dark Angels for many years, and not played BA from the new codex, so it hasn't really lodged in my brain. I know 'combat squads' over-rides 'unit coherence' but it hadn't occurred that it also over-rides 'all models in a unit must embark at the same time'... but now it's been pointed out, it's certainly logical and I should probably have noticed...

"embarrased emoticon"

Still no cyclops. Curses!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
To clarify this point - and this is taken from the DA's codex - A squad split into Combat Squads are "treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point". This is the part that I think overrides the embarkation rules, since these rules specify "units". Also note that units held in reserve cannot be split in this way; Combat Squads must be deployed at the start of the game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
One thing leaps out at me from this, which also hadn't occurred (and I don't have a copy of BA to hand, or DA at all, so I'm gonna have to be guided by your collective wisdom here).

Presumably if they treated as 'seperate units' an independent character can join one combat squad and they can all get in a Razorback (ie, if you know you're going to be dividing the squad in two, you can give them a transport that won't take them all anyway)?

Is there anything to stop you fielding another Razorback for the other combat squad as well? This could potentially lead to up to 12 Razorbacks on the field with no FOC slots used - which is an awful lot of free lascannons...

Pining for my cyclops...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
One thing leaps out at me from this, which also hadn't occurred (and I don't have a copy of BA to hand, or DA at all, so I'm gonna have to be guided by your collective wisdom here).

Presumably if they treated as 'seperate units' an independent character can join one combat squad and they can all get in a Razorback (ie, if you know you're going to be dividing the squad in two, you can give them a transport that won't take them all anyway)?

Is there anything to stop you fielding another Razorback for the other combat squad as well? This could potentially lead to up to 12 Razorbacks on the field with no FOC slots used - which is an awful lot of free lascannons...

Pining for my cyclops...
No, I don't think so. Dedicated transports (DT's) are one per unit, and you write the ten man up at the start before deployment and allocate transport at that time. Squads are split up into CS's during deployment so you can't give them a DT then. They are only treated as individual units from the moment of deployment.

HTH
 

·
Powered by Squig Tea
Joined
·
7,589 Posts
The characters joining a combat squad in a Razorback is fine Red Orc.
As you buy the transports before splitting into combat squads, i reckon its a no to the second part as you can only buy the one.

You could buy the HQ choice a Razorback of his own (I think) but im not sure how that would work if he joined a unit ,as you can only use your own transports unless they are a Heavy Support choice one or a character that has joined the unit and is hitching a lift in theirs.

So I think that the only way to have two combat squads with transports is one with a Razorback or Rhino of their own that a character can then join and the other half with a Heavy Support Landraider that a second character could join.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
Yeah, I think that's correct. According to the rule book, units may not be spread around in different transports, but as CS's are treated as separate units from the moment of deployment you could place one CS in a dedicated with character and the other in a HS slot choice with character.
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
Ok, here's the breakdown.

You have one Tactical Squad (this is the slot it takes on your FOC)
That Tactical Squad may have A Drop Pod, Rhino or Razorback as a dedicated transport. (Only one transport). There is no 'if the squad is under X members take this' restrictions. A 10 man squad may have a razorback.

Now, during deployment you may either field the squad as a whole or split it into two combat squads (if you are holding in reserve you have to keep the squad whole). If you keep it whole your Razorback is now, essentially, a mobile gun platform. You cannot embark because the unit will not fit.

However, if you break into combat squads when you deploy then you may give the transport to ONE of those units. It becomes the dedicated transport of that unit (since the dedicated transport rules refer to a unit rather than a squad or FoC entry). Those 5 models may embark or disembark, and may even be joined by an IC pre-deployment (assuming you're not doing escalation). The other 5 men in the squad are not only on foot, but may not use the razorback even when it's empty.

So you leave your lascannon (or more likely, missile launcher) with his 4 expendable wounds and then mount up your meltagun and powerfist and go kick some ass.

And no, ICs cannot buy their own razorbacks and the like. But they can ride with other squads (even combat squads)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,615 Posts
It did seem too good to be true that you could field 12 Laserback tank-lites with no FOC slots used. But I see the point about having to choose the transport before deployment, which is then the stage where the squad becomes 2 units.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

'Cyclops? What cyclops?'
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
At the X Legion tactica tournament 02 Mike Locke took a mechanised BA army..... As the organiser I read the army list with some disbelief as it was the most atypical BA army I've ever seen and I thought it would sink..... So you can imagine my surprise when he came in 3rd place with a number of notable victories under his belt and a whopping great VP difference! I think it might be true that BA's are now just as potent (and maybe even more so..?) shooting as they are hacking people to death up close and personal. Of course having a death company to back up the tanks and transports helps but it really was a brutal list!

If I remember correctly he had a pred, Baal pred, vindi, 2 rhinos with combat squads in them (one with an attached commander I think) small death company, a couple of small assault squads, a couple of attack bikes and 2 dreads in drop pods.... absolutely awesome!

Malchek ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Call me a purist, but making BA a shooty army makes me cry :(. But, what can you do :p.

BTW, since this codex came in a White Dwarf and not like the others, can i refuse to use them ina tourny since its not a real codex :p.
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
It is a real codex.
The fact it says "OFFICIAL CODEX" on it means its well, an official codex.

If you want to play BA you *must* use the new codex (which is available online as well).
the 3rd edition codex is not an option, no more than Angels of Death was back in 3rd ed.

And if you want "purist" then get yourself a bunch of big 10-man tactical and dev squads, a Death Company that runs around on foot, and or two Assault squads. That's the way the armies were set up back in Angels of Death.

How "pure" do you want to go?

Lists, playstyle and fluff change with every new edition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
It is a real codex.
The fact it says "OFFICIAL CODEX" on it means its well, an official codex.

If you want to play BA you *must* use the new codex (which is available online as well).
the 3rd edition codex is not an option, no more than Angels of Death was back in 3rd ed.

And if you want "purist" then get yourself a bunch of big 10-man tactical and dev squads, a Death Company that runs around on foot, and or two Assault squads. That's the way the armies were set up back in Angels of Death.

How "pure" do you want to go?

Lists, playstyle and fluff change with every new edition.

I know man, im just having fun :p. I plan to look through the codex and read it more so that i can fully understand the army. At first glance it looks like a nerf, but im sure there is some good in the codex :). Does suck that they didnt release it in stores like DA or BT, and that i have to print it out.... But it is free so :laugh:

Oh and quick question, Now the DC that comes from squads, it is not actually taken from the squad like before, but instead when you get a Tactical Squad you get one DC for free. Did i read that right :O
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
We actually came out of it with a fairly good list.
It just takes some real skill to come out with a powerful army, and our model count is going to be low, so you need to know how to play with small armies, moreso than usual for SM.

I will say that we came out a bit less powerful, but remember that, by and large, BA were were overpowered somewhat to begin with. Free Furious Charge for an assault based army was amazing. But just because we;re less powerful doesn;t mean they;re still not a very powerful list, if built correctly.

And yes, you get a 'free' Death company model for each squad you buy (Terminators, VAS, assault squad, tacs, devs, but not bikes, attack bikes, HG or scouts), but most of our squads also cost between 15-25 points more, because of that 'free' DC.

So unless you take terminators (which do give a free DC that;s actually free) or Assault Squads (they're only 15 points more than normal, so it's half-price for the DC member) you're buying a mandatory squad of 25 point models (30 points if you want JPs)

But it's a really badass squad, and they're worth the points. You're just saddled with having to buy them whether you want it or not. (Technically you could opt not to field a DC, but you're still paying extra for the minis)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Hey All,

Apologies for any 'off topic' but this thread caught my eye for obvious reasons... :)

Anyhoo, the BA Mod for dow will feature a twin branching system currently labelled as the 'Might' or 'Wings' of Sanguinius...while keeping the general doctrine of assault, we've tried to give two ways of playing the Blood Angels...

The 'Might of Sanguinius' features a shooty, Vehicle & heavy weapon accented, footslogging troop selection, headed by Captain Tycho...

While the 'Wings of Sanguinius' features a more...hmmm...purist approach of Death from Above, Jumppack's ariel assault and is headed by Commander Dante...

I really hope this to be a big feature of the Mod, giving the player an oppertunity to tailor his dow army to his enemy... :)

Unfortunately for us, we began the Mod three years ago, and initial plans were nearing completion when GW released the new codex...its not a real problem with dow, and I'm glad the update changed only a few names & abilities...

Reading through this thread gives me the confidence to say that we are on course to achieve the mission statement, to bring a better representation of the Blood Angels Chapter into the Dawn of War games community!

Again, apologies for the hijack...carry on!

Cheers,
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top