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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Evening all!

So, the thorn in my side for the last 9 months or so has been my friend's Astra Militarum/KNIGHTS combo. Two KNIGHTS, allied to a whole host of mechanised infantry ie Vets with Plasma Guns in Chimeras and a Leman Russ gun line.

I have real problems with it because EVERYTHING is armoured fairly heavily. Even the Chimeras are AV12 at the front, and he always deploys so that it's exceptionally risky for me to deep strike in behind his lines with units such as Terminators and Raptors. Still... here's what I tend to bring to the table these days.

HQ
Chaos Sorceror
w/Sigil of Corruption, Spell Familiar, Bolt Pistol, Force Weapon, MoN (115)

ELITES
Chaos Terminators
5 x Chainfist & Combi-Melta, MoN (277)

TROOPS
10 Cultists (50)
10 Cultists (50)

FAST ATTACK
2 x Heldrake
Hades Autocannon (340)

Raptors
w/Melta Gun & Melta Bombs (Champ) (110)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Land Raider (230)

Chaos Vindicator
w/Havoc Launcher (127)

Forgefiend
w/Hades Autocannons & Ectoplasma Cannon (200)

=1499

I've gone for the Hades Autocannons over the Baleflamers on the Heldrakes because I've found that the number of shots and that extra bit of strength is a lot more important than a lovely template when you're up against KNIGHTS. And Chimeras, too, for that matter.

The real killer for me is the KNIGHTS' ability to fire at different targets with their different weapons. With two of the bliighters, that's an awful lot of targets covered between them, AND an awful lot of options for them, come the assault phase as well.

This list started off as being based around what I had, but a few big guns got spliced in along the way.

I used to run a Daemon Prince, but it took so long for him to get into assault (Turn 3 earliest!), and there were so many points invested in him, that the exercise seemed a bit of a fruitless one.

SUGGESTIONS NEEDED/WELCOME
 

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vs. a lot of armor I like 3 man squads of termis with combi meltas, they're cheap and you can surround a knight to get at least six shots on unshielded sides when they deep strike in. thrown in a chain fist too if you want but I tend to stick with either power mauls or power axes vs armor as they are cheap and do decent against rear armor 10. idk about raptors, 3 termis always hit harder and last longer for me.
 

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Warsmith
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1,190 Posts
Why are you using a Landraider? Do you have other options? As it in my book is overpriced for what it does.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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4,249 Posts
Chaos Sorceror
w/Sigil of Corruption, Spell Familiar, Bolt Pistol, Force Weapon, MoN (115)
I would switch to Crimson Slaughter in order to buy the Balestar of Mannon rather than a Spell Familiar, for access to Prescience--so that you can twin-link that BS3 Forgefiend's HACs. I'd also drop the MoN so you don't have to roll your Mastery Level on the Nurgle power tree--and buy 2 more Mastery Levels, if you can find the points.

Chaos Terminators
5 x Chainfist & Combi-Melta, MoN (277)
Why MoN against Strength D weapons? MoT is cheaper and can help save against any attacks that he doesn't roll a 6 to wound on, more reliably.

2 x Heldrake
Hades Autocannon (340)
I would much rather have another Forgefiend for about the cost of one of these guys--and the same damage output--than these 2. I realize that there's probably a miniature limitation, here, but...

Uveron asks why you're taking a LR, and I think I can hazard a guess: to make sure that a Knight can't kill your Termis until it's charged in to crack the shell, since it's unlikely it'll be able to take out the LR at range. In response, I say... desperate times call for desperate measures. I've been there, at my wit's end, and forced to design such painful sacrifices for moderate gains.

A thought: it's important not to let the Knight's base block off the only frontal access port you have, so the Termis don't have to make an Emergency Disembarkation. My thought? Sponsons can pivot 180 degrees. Spin the land raider around, so the Knight has to charge the rear armor, and your Termis get out the back!

Honestly, the Vindi can only get one hit on a Knight. I'd rather take a Predator with twin-las turret and las sponsons, and get up to three hits (albeit S9 AP2, rather than S10 AP1).

Raptors
w/Melta Gun & Melta Bombs (Champ) (110)
I'd much rather have 4 bikers with 2 melta for the same cost (then add meltabombs). The ability to flat out one turn to reposition for a threat radius, or get into a different armor flank to force your opponent to pick an awkward shield facing... the greater mobility (plus higher toughness--though that's not too much of a consideration against Knights) is vital. Plus, well, the ability to Jink for a save against a melta- or battlecannon. Plus, well, a lot of non-knight useful situational rules that Bikes get for free over Raptors...
 

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Warsmith
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1,190 Posts
May be its time for a Maulerfiend? They should be able to 'eat' tanks?

I have found Chaos Spawn very useful in dealing with Astra Militarum tanks.. They hit with S5 in the rear Armour, move fast and are very cheap.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Maulerfiends are good, but at I3, are almost certainly going to take a S D hit before they get to go.

My combo for Knight-killing with my Daemons makes use of the Maulerfiend allied in, though, definitely. Fiends cause -5I on the enemy they assault the turn they assault, so I can charge my I3 Soul Grinder and Maulerfiend in alongside those Fiends, and shred that Knight before it gets to attack. Plus Be'lakor and/or some Screamers for that Armorbane, in addition to the S10/S8 melta hits. If I can't guarantee the assault, I'll cast Invisibility from Be'lakor on the 'Fiend or the Soul Grinder and leave it forward as bait, so it will probably soak up the Knight's assault and live, then everything else can pile in.

...but unless you include an Allied Detachment for Daemons, or a bunch of Daemonology levels for Incursion, I can't see you getting Fiends to help out melee Daemon Engines...
 

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Rattlehead
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Plus Be'lakor and/or some Screamers for that Armorbane, in addition to the S10/S8 melta hits. If I can't guarantee the assault, I'll cast Invisibility from Be'lakor on the 'Fiend or the Soul Grinder and leave it forward as bait, so it will probably soak up the Knight's assault and live, then everything else can pile in.
Does that really work so well? I imagine Stomps ruin their day pretty hard, and even a single hit from the Knight can do some serious damage.

Melee is totally the way to deal with Knights though if you don't have Haywire or some kind of trick to bypass Ion Shields - even two or three dudes with Meltabombs can seriously ruin their day (as a side note, the single greatest anti-Knight unit is Tankbustas, with a squad of 15 seriously overkilling a Knight even if they get charged). Since Knights will be actively trying to get into melee, outfit all your units except Havocs or whatever with Meltabombs on the Champion. Unless he has a Knight as a Warlord, it won't be able to challenge out the Champion and you can give it a really hard time while it kills your basic dudes (oh, and you'll need to grab an Icon of Vengeance or attach a Chaos Lord). As Mossy said, Be'lakor or Screamers are both good alternatives - basically, anything Armourbane with a damage chart modifier that ignores the Ion Shield is a good bet. That, or bring an absolute tonne of Meltaguns either Deep Striking (Oblits) or in Drop Pods (anything else). Drop one unit on each side of the Knight and force it to expose one side to the Melta units (Chaos kinda struggle with this, not having conventional Drop Pods or Battle Focus or anything else to help with this tactic/bypass the Shield, but it's certainly do-able).
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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Does that really work so well? I imagine Stomps ruin their day pretty hard, and even a single hit from the Knight can do some serious damage.
If you've taken some HPs off it at range and charge enough units in to strip all of its hull points in one go (clustering the important ones, or all possible, on the ends rather than the middle of the base, so the deathboom don't hurt so bad)
 

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I do like the land raider/terminator combo. I think five chainfists is a bit excessive but it'll certainly get the job done with a knight. Why mark of nurgle over tzeentch? I think tzeentch would be more valuable. Khorne would be good (and cheap) but I suppose that many chainfists probably doesn't need the extra attacks to write off a knight

I'd have at least one guy in that unit with no upgrades to soak up overwatch or die in combat before the fists get to attack
 
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