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Scenario; a template covers five Canoptek Scarab Bases and deals six wounds (Just read something about a flamer doing double wounds). If they suffer from instant death due to templates (This is my understanding of Vulnerable to Blasts), then there would be six casualties. Can a template weapon only deal wounds to the targets actually under the template? Will I only lose the five bases under the template, or will I take a further base as casualty from the rest of the unit?
 

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Pretty sure it works just like a template on a normal unit. You get the number of hits as per what is under the template and the wounds from those hits are allocated nearest to farthest from the firer, regardless of whether the wounded model was under the template or not.
 

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Scenario; a template covers five Canoptek Scarab Bases and deals six wounds (Just read something about a flamer doing double wounds). If they suffer from instant death due to templates (This is my understanding of Vulnerable to Blasts), then there would be six casualties. Can a template weapon only deal wounds to the targets actually under the template? Will I only lose the five bases under the template, or will I take a further base as casualty from the rest of the unit?
Magpie has the allocation correct. Flamers can wound models they don't "hit." But you got Vulnerable to Blasts wrong. VtB is what causes a flamer(or any template or blast) to cause double wounds. So a Flamer hitting 6 basses and wounding 6 times causes 12 wounds to a Swarm. Instant Death comes in if the weapon strength is double model toughness. So a S6+ weapon, not VtB will cause Instant Death. And the ID stacks with the VtB, meaning a S6 template causing 6 wounds will, in fact, remove 12 whole Scarab basses, not 12 wounds. A S5 or less template will cause 12 wounds in this scenario.
 

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And the ID stacks with the VtB, meaning a S6 template causing 6 wounds will, in fact, remove 12 whole Scarab basses, not 12 wounds. A S5 or less template will cause 12 wounds in this scenario.
Brutal !
 

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Magpie has the allocation correct. Flamers can wound models they don't "hit." But you got Vulnerable to Blasts wrong. VtB is what causes a flamer(or any template or blast) to cause double wounds. So a Flamer hitting 6 basses and wounding 6 times causes 12 wounds to a Swarm. Instant Death comes in if the weapon strength is double model toughness. So a S6+ weapon, not VtB will cause Instant Death. And the ID stacks with the VtB, meaning a S6 template causing 6 wounds will, in fact, remove 12 whole Scarab basses, not 12 wounds. A S5 or less template will cause 12 wounds in this scenario.
Yes but due to the newest FAQ about If you only have flamers, you can only wound what you can reach with a flamer template. So you'd measure from your unit and see how many bases can be touched to work out which ones can be allocated the wounds.

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.
 

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I was gunna bring up that FAQ about range and casualties. It's meant to stop precision shots from being allocated to someone outside the range of the model firing said shot, but also leads to flame templates not extending past their range.

This doesn't mean that no extra wounds are caused, I would say that should there be models past the fat end of the flame template they cannot be wounded but everything in front of that spot gets ran.

For sure, I'm a bit blurry on it as well. I'm not sure how this FAQ effects template weapons, but I would err on the side of a flamer not being able to run a unit that it can only hit a few models of due to range based on anything under the Swarms rule.

As a side note, do you still account for the VtB rule when using flamers on overwatch against a swarm?
 

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Yes but due to the newest FAQ about If you only have flamers, you can only wound what you can reach with a flamer template. So you'd measure from your unit and see how many bases can be touched to work out which ones can be allocated the wounds.

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.
My post was stolen! But yeah, I was pretty much going to do that exact thing until I saw you did it first.

Sadly, or happily depending on if you are the receiver or giver of the template, it would appear that Wounds can only be allocated to models within range of the weapon now. Now they just need to make it so Wounds from a Blast can only be allocated to those models under the blast marker.
 

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My post was stolen! But yeah, I was pretty much going to do that exact thing until I saw you did it first.

Sadly, or happily depending on if you are the receiver or giver of the template, it would appear that Wounds can only be allocated to models within range of the weapon now. Now they just need to make it so Wounds from a Blast can only be allocated to those models under the blast marker.
The easiest way to get around this is to have one model in the unit fir a weapon with longer range. This was my tactic with Flamers of Tzeentch. 8 Flame templates and one shooting warpflame in the old Daemon codex.

My local has ruled that blast wounds can only be allocated to models in line of sight and range of the weapon, as per normal shooting attacks.
 

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If you scatter a blast weapon you ignore LOS and wound restrictions (although not allocation restriction RAW), page 33.

Also yeah the point about "not within range any of the shooting models", should mean that a bolter with 24" range could allow the wounds to be allocated past the flamers template length.
 

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I ignore that "latest" FAQ as it doesn't make sense and as has been said all you need is all your 12" range models to be able to reach one guy and then have a Heavy bolter or something and you can shoot the rest.

I am confident that range FAQ will be changed or deleted next time around as it is directly contradictory to the rules.
 

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I ignore that "latest" FAQ as it doesn't make sense and as has been said all you need is all your 12" range models to be able to reach one guy and then have a Heavy bolter or something and you can shoot the rest.

I am confident that range FAQ will be changed or deleted next time around as it is directly contradictory to the rules.
Swooping FMC having Skyfire also contradicts the rules. That is not "ignored". FAQs are written to fix broken things, which sometimes directly contradicts the rulebook.

That is a good point about the wording of the question though. The problem with ignoring it because it can be negated by having a weapon with longer range is that weapon could be removed and then you still have the same problem with allocating wounds to models not in range of any of the firing unit's shots, which the FAQ says you cannot do. If you want to house rule it that is your business. I just don't like the idea of accepting FAQs you like and agree with and ignoring the rest.
 

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I ignore that "latest" FAQ as it doesn't make sense and as has been said all you need is all your 12" range models to be able to reach one guy and then have a Heavy bolter or something and you can shoot the rest.

I am confident that range FAQ will be changed or deleted next time around as it is directly contradictory to the rules.
Here I was thinking this just meant that the distance a weapon's damage can go is limited by it's range. For example, say you were shooting a unit with bolt pistols and caused 7 unsaved wounds on a squad of 15. Only 4 of the models in the 15 man unit are literally within the 12" range of the weapon, so those are the only ones removed from play. To me it doesn't make sense that those 3 extra wounds can travel further than the maximum range of the weapon and this makes the already beefy shooting phase a little less ridiculous. The exception to wounds travelling of range is being scattering blast templates I'm pretty sure.
 

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Here I was thinking this just meant that the distance a weapon's damage can go is limited by it's range. For example, say you were shooting a unit with bolt pistols and caused 7 unsaved wounds on a squad of 15. Only 4 of the models in the 15 man unit are literally within the 12" range of the weapon, so those are the only ones removed from play. To me it doesn't make sense that those 3 extra wounds can travel further than the maximum range of the weapon and this makes the already beefy shooting phase a little less ridiculous. The exception to wounds travelling of range is being scattering blast templates I'm pretty sure.
This is exactly how my group plays it. Having a Heavy Bolter in your squad doesn't magically make your Bolters shoot farther.
 

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Here I was thinking this just meant that the distance a weapon's damage can go is limited by it's range.
Sure but that is directly contradictory to what is written in the rule book. To change that you need an Amendment not an FAQ.
 

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Sure but that is directly contradictory to what is written in the rule book. To change that you need an Amendment not an FAQ.
So it's a problem in the book that people ask about...and they added it to the FAQ. I really don't get the source of your woes, it seems pretty clear cut to me. That bit after what you quoted of mine. Granted, we're likely never going to play this game together unless one of us flies with our army. You just usually have more to explain than 'I'd rather an amendment than a FAQ'. In the rulebook it states that "Any model that is found to be out of range of all visible enemy models in the target unit doesn't shoot". A FAQ clears that up nicely for people that want to read into the wording what they will to get more models firing it seems to me.

What is the source of your discontent here, why does this rankle with you so?
 

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FAQs are used to clarify poorly worded entries in the rulebook. As ntaw said I think it waspoorly written and now makes sense. To be honest I don't see why it would make sense to allow my bolter to shoot further because I brought a Heavy Bolter along.
 

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The rule regarding range when considering wound allocation on Page 16 makes it quite clear that so long as a model was within range of an enemy unit at the start of the shooting phase then they are considered in range through out the shooting phase, even if the only models remaining are one out of range.

The FAQ is now saying the opposite of that, or at best is adding a new requirement.

An FAQ can only clarify not countermand.
 

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The rule regarding range when considering wound allocation on Page 16 makes it quite clear that so long as a model was within range of an enemy unit at the start of the shooting phase then they are considered in range through out the shooting phase, even if the only models remaining are one out of range.

The FAQ is now saying the opposite of that, or at best is adding a new requirement.

An FAQ can only clarify not countermand.
So what you are saying is Swooping FMC cannot use Skyfire?
 

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Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half are not)? (p15)
A: No.
you guys do note that it specifies whenever you take your "to hit rolls" right? flamers do not "roll to hit".:eek:k:

edit: we also ignore this line of the FAQ, since it wasn't an amendment to the BRB its just GW's house rule
 

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So what you are saying is Swooping FMC cannot use Skyfire?
No because the FAQ does not change the rule it clarifies it. The FMC have always had the ability to fire two weapons normally when swooping.
 
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