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Discussion Starter #21
Wow totally missed that. What the fuck GW, Lord of War squads??
and the BRB have NO rules about GC squads, so that will be another disaster. 2" cohesion? 4"? at least it has no squadron bonus.
 

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"Alright boys, let's bring out the Stormsurge"

"Ok fellas, single file, single file, watch the munitorum, we want that later for the greater good."
 

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my local GW has a board with city of death like ruin density. how are squads of those things going to move around in that ? XD
Good point. I think it's reasonable to assume they are going to be limited in where they can move on the table. In real life you aren't going to drive a massive tank into a village, it's going to have to sit outside

lol oh, Tau... because the Riptide isn't nonsense enough. Super cool model though, and I look forward to figuring out what to do about it with my Space Marines.
Massed grav? Or just chuck bodies at it and keep it tied up. On the other hand it has some kind of souped up overwatch which could make that tricky, but I can't remember what those overwatch guns do
 

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Jeepers
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Good point. I think it's reasonable to assume they are going to be limited in where they can move on the table. In real life you aren't going to drive a massive tank into a village, it's going to have to sit outside



Massed grav? Or just chuck bodies at it and keep it tied up. On the other hand it has some kind of souped up overwatch which could make that tricky, but I can't remember what those overwatch guns do
First up. why wouldnt you drive a massive tank into a village? ;)

Second, i dont think its that simple, since i think people will bubble wrap the shit out of it so it will be bloody hard to get that thing into combat.
 

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First up. why wouldnt you drive a massive tank into a village? ;)

Second, i dont think its that simple, since i think people will bubble wrap the shit out of it so it will be bloody hard to get that thing into combat.
I mean a village where the streets are literally too narrow to move the tank along it

And fair point. On the other hand if you only wanted to tarpit those things your shooting targets are going to be the rest of the army anyway, so that bubblewrap is likely to take a battering

I'm in favour of limits on GMCs and superheavy LoWs, and since there are major tournaments already limiting them it wouldn't surprise me to see limits of one on the stormsurge. Not one unit, just one model.
 

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Jeepers
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I mean a village where the streets are literally too narrow to move the tank along it

And fair point. On the other hand if you only wanted to tarpit those things your shooting targets are going to be the rest of the army anyway, so that bubblewrap is likely to take a battering

I'm in favour of limits on GMCs and superheavy LoWs, and since there are major tournaments already limiting them it wouldn't surprise me to see limits of one on the stormsurge. Not one unit, just one model.
I think the biggest problem with LoW/GMC -though this discussion could most likely be its own thread - is that its like flyiers when they first came out and the Helldrake and 'Cron Air was king. Not everyone has them. I play Sisters, Dark Eldar, and Mechanicum in 40k. Sisters ill remove from the discussion because, well you know. Dark Eldar don't have a LoW, the 1 character that could have been a candidate to be a LoW, instead of giving Vect a brand new model like Santa Claus had for SW, he was just flat out removed. My Ad Mech don't have one short of the War Convication. 'Nids dont have one, while the Marines have LoW are they comparable in what they offer an army/list to these GMC LoW? Yeeah the Imperium have Knights but still, built into their own books they are lacking.

This is why I think 30k is insanely rather balanced, everyone has options to pretty much access to a huge array of LoW, which even then they all have access to the same ones, so it some what balances itself. Yes other choices are better than others, but since everyone has access, good or bad, it balances itself. Yes there are more diferences between 30k and 40k that affect this so its not as simple as just giving everyone access. But it does address the issue of everyone having LoW/Super Heavy/GMC which I think is a really big problem for 40k right now.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Massed grav? Or just chuck bodies at it and keep it tied up. On the other hand it has some kind of souped up overwatch which could make that tricky, but I can't remember what those overwatch guns do
You're thinking of the KX139, the new FW titan. This is GW's new suit, and as a GC, it has no overwatch available.

I think the biggest problem with LoW/GMC -though this discussion could most likely be its own thread - is that its like flyiers when they first came out and the Helldrake and 'Cron Air was king. Not everyone has them. I play Sisters, Dark Eldar, and Mechanicum in 40k. Sisters ill remove from the discussion because, well you know. Dark Eldar don't have a LoW, the 1 character that could have been a candidate to be a LoW, instead of giving Vect a brand new model like Santa Claus had for SW, he was just flat out removed. My Ad Mech don't have one short of the War Convication. 'Nids dont have one, while the Marines have LoW are they comparable in what they offer an army/list to these GMC LoW? Yeeah the Imperium have Knights but still, built into their own books they are lacking.

This is why I think 30k is insanely rather balanced, everyone has options to pretty much access to a huge array of LoW, which even then they all have access to the same ones, so it some what balances itself. Yes other choices are better than others, but since everyone has access, good or bad, it balances itself. Yes there are more diferences between 30k and 40k that affect this so its not as simple as just giving everyone access. But it does address the issue of everyone having LoW/Super Heavy/GMC which I think is a really big problem for 40k right now.
I have to disagree, not on the fact that there's too much power creep, but on the fact that LoWs are readily available a lot now. Because the Imperium are all Battle Brothers with each other, the Imperial Knights were probably the absolute smartest thing that GW could have done, because ANY army is allowed to take them. You're just limited by what your gaming scene allows for allies. The War Convocation is actually BETTER than most other armies because in allowing the Knight to appear, it also gives him additional bonuses. No other army gets to do that.

You are correct that Dark Eldar don't have a LoW, though does it fit their style to have something that massive? Honestly, I'd have said the same for Tau before these new suits dropped. The only reason Chaos got one was FW (unless you're playing Khorne, then you get the Lawn Mower). is FW also.

As for 30k... of course it's balanced. if you're not Mechanicum or SolarGuard you're playing the same army with different paint jobs.
 

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Jeepers
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You're thinking of the KX139, the new FW titan. This is GW's new suit, and as a GC, it has no overwatch available.



I have to disagree, not on the fact that there's too much power creep, but on the fact that LoWs are readily available a lot now. Because the Imperium are all Battle Brothers with each other, the Imperial Knights were probably the absolute smartest thing that GW could have done, because ANY army is allowed to take them. You're just limited by what your gaming scene allows for allies. The War Convocation is actually BETTER than most other armies because in allowing the Knight to appear, it also gives him additional bonuses. No other army gets to do that.

You are correct that Dark Eldar don't have a LoW, though does it fit their style to have something that massive? Honestly, I'd have said the same for Tau before these new suits dropped. The only reason Chaos got one was FW (unless you're playing Khorne, then you get the Lawn Mower). is FW also.

As for 30k... of course it's balanced. if you're not Mechanicum or SolarGuard you're playing the same army with different paint jobs.
Don't get me wrong I like the War Convocation and once I get enough money saved up for my own Knight ill actualy be able to field it.

Dark Eldar, yeah Kabal no, but just make it a production of the Coven part and yeah you could make a GMC if you wanted to go that route, plus the DE probably would have some manner of Super Heavy Gunboat, which again if anyone would have access it would be Vect on his Pimp Boat.

I actually think Tau with the nature of their suits lends itself rather well, the actualy model is something that id down to personal taste though, same with 'Nids and Orks,. The Chaos Lawn Mower is horribly priced points wise, i get making it fluufy for Khorne but damn. And it shouldnt be down to FW to make a Chaos Knight, just make a Chaos sprue and do it like those SW/DA/BA sprues that came out.

I think 40k will better when all the armies -besides Sisters- have access to LoW/GMC/SHV and D weapons as standard - not sure if that is actually a good thing though - I dont want to complain too much until I wait and see what the next few codexes after Tau bring since, since once Tau and Chaos/Deamons are done, wont they all be 7th ed books?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Don't get me wrong I like the War Convocation and once I get enough money saved up for my own Knight ill actualy be able to field it.
I'm the opposite. I have a Knight but no AdMech.

Dark Eldar, yeah Kabal no, but just make it a production of the Coven part and yeah you could make a GMC if you wanted to go that route, plus the DE probably would have some manner of Super Heavy Gunboat, which again if anyone would have access it would be Vect on his Pimp Boat.
The Tantalus is the perfect model, already made, to upgrade to LoW status.

I actually think Tau with the nature of their suits lends itself rather well, the actualy model is something that id down to personal taste though, same with 'Nids and Orks,. The Chaos Lawn Mower is horribly priced points wise, i get making it fluufy for Khorne but damn. And it shouldnt be down to FW to make a Chaos Knight, just make a Chaos sprue and do it like those SW/DA/BA sprues that came out.
Do you see the irony in saying we shouldn't need to depend on FW, but also said that 30k is better balanced???

As for the SW/BA sprues for the Knight... you mean the ones that were released by private people on Shapeways?

I think 40k will better when all the armies -besides Sisters- have access to LoW/GMC/SHV and D weapons as standard - not sure if that is actually a good thing though - I dont want to complain too much until I wait and see what the next few codexes after Tau bring since, since once Tau and Chaos/Deamons are done, wont they all be 7th ed books?
With the Oathsworn Detachment, ANY Loyalist chapter can have an Imperial Knight. Sisters, technically, are in the same boat as Space Marines, since Marines don't have their own outside of giant HQ units, and we both know we're not talking about character LoW in this discussion. That means they can take the allied LoW also. Heck, ANY army could choose to take a Necron Obelisk if you wanted, since the Necron book has a Formation (with no tax) to take an Obelisk and 0-2 Monoliths.
 

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I demand that it be considered open-topped.
Same, sure you cant see the men inside from grond level, but if a barrage or something comes down thats pretty damned hazardous. That thing definitly shouldnt be deployed when the Tau are up against artillery.
 

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I demand that it be considered open-topped.
Same, sure you cant see the men inside from grond level, but if a barrage or something comes down thats pretty damned hazardous. That thing definitly shouldnt be deployed when the Tau are up against artillery.
While I agree that it's silly in the extreme, that only increases the rules quandary as open-topped is a Vehicle type and this is a GC.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Rules questions aside, I love the cockpit detailing. Seeing the pilots really gives it a lot more character.
Exact opposite to me. The whole point of Tau suits being creatures were because they were single man extensions. Move an arm, arm moves. etc.

That cockpit DEMANDS that they be considered a vehicle profile, since it's two pilots working in tandom. It's ARMOR.

(and the open topped was a joke, I know GCs can't have that).
 

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That cockpit DEMANDS that they be considered a vehicle profile, since it's two pilots working in tandom. It's ARMOR.
That's like saying sticking wings on a gargant demands its a flier. It doesn't matter if there's a 25 man crew, it's part of a battle suit family that are considered creatures. But, as I said, I care not a jot for the rules aspect of it, for me this is just a very cool detail on the model.
 
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