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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay, so I've recently begun collecting and playing a Tau army. I chose them mainly because I like the models, and I wanted an army that plays different from my Dark Angels.

I've seen and heard a few comments online and at my local store that the Tau are a broken army, some people have even said that they will refuse to play a Tau army for that reason (not that I was looking for a game, I was just buying a few models). Now, I'm generally a hobbyist first and a gamer second, but I decided to build my Tau force for gaming, as I selected my DA units mainly for aesthetic reasons.

It's pretty rare I even go into a store looking for a game, but when I do, I'd like to be able to find an opponent who isn't going to bitch about my army, as I heard enough sly remarks about my Space Marines (though nobody ever refused to play them).

I don't think Tau are a broken army, they are an army with very obvious strengths and weaknesses, and I guess that can be exploited either way.

I was wondering what the people on here think of the Tau Empire. Broken? Or not?

Shit, this was meant to be in general 40K. Could somebody move it please?
 

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Broken definatly. however only for the fact of the skimmer rule, and that their normal gun has strength and range above all other standardized weapon's for other armies. a mechanized tau force can and does use its unkillable tanks to keep its weak in close combat troops out of said combat, thus negating their only weakness.... i cannot wait for fifth edition, and i pray the games workshop master minds had enough foresight to fix this horrid mistake. i play regularly at our game store and no one beats the tau player... ever. we've even played 3 on 1 matches with all playes playing equal points.. the tau player generally looses maybe a crisis suit... its rediculously wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
If that is really the case I take it Tau have won all the Grand Tournaments since they were introduced?
 

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Tau are no more broken than Eldar, IG, Necrons, Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks, etc. Anyone who says differently is a coward.

As you mentioned, Tau have their weaknesses and strengths, just like any other army. There are many ways to exploit those weaknesses, if one is willing to try, and not whine about how their army cannot handle another. That is simply not true.

Please do not let whiners ruin your enjoyment of the game.
 

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the tau are broken but can be beaten if you are equal parts smart and lucky. if you can get a decent CC unit into melee with the tau, its game over...just use ur consolidation moves wisely
broken, yes. unbeatable, no.
 

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very good grasshopper =o ya skimmers are mean and longer range infantry suck, other then that i still think theyre hella fun, kroot suck ass too, ill stop talking in l33t yarz
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
... no one beats the tau player... ever. we've even played 3 on 1 matches with all playes playing equal points.. the tau player generally looses maybe a crisis suit... its rediculously wrong.
It seems ridiculous to me that 3 armies could not beat a single army one third of their combined size.
 

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The Tau are definitely not broken. Yes, their guns have good range. Yes, their guns are stronger than most. However, they have a glaring weakness. They cannot fight in hand to hand. At all. Oh, kroot hounds are kinda killy... but they get their faces eaten against any kind of CC specialist unit and they're as close as it gets for the Tau. As for the Tau's other advantages there are plenty of places where it doesn't work all that well.

First off, Crisis Suits are just not that fast. 12" is a long way when you're comparing to a marine, but not when you're comparing to a marine with a jump pack who is intent on assaulting. Or, god forbid, a bike, jetbike or the SM Land Speeder. That, folks, is how you make a dead crisis suit, if you didn't already know.

Secondly, yes. Tau tanks are pretty tough. They're nigh invulnerable, even...

Sorry, but no. The highest AV the Tau have access to is a 13, on the front quarter of the Hammerhead. Everything else is 12 or lower. The Tau also do not have access to a bunch of nifty upgrades to keep you from damaging their tanks. There is precisely one vehicle upgrade in the Tau armory that forces a reroll and then only on one potential result on the glancing damage table. There are two upgrades that could make a vehicle obscured, but that just downgrades a penetrating hit to a glancing on a 4+. You're better off moving quickly. I'll keep the homework to myself, but a tricked out Tau Hammerhead has the following chances of surviving a shot from a single guardsman with a lascannon on the front of the tank:
50% Guardsman Misses.
25% Guarrdsman Fails to penetrate armor.
9.02% Crew Shaken, Tank may not fire.
4.86% Crew Stunned. Kill it next turn. Duh.
.69% Immobilized. Decoy launchers are figured in.
4.86% Armament Destroyed
4.86% Tank Destroyed.

So you have approximately a 1 in 10 of effectively killing it with a single lascannon fired by a guardsman. Honestly, that isn't all that bad when you compare it with, say, a tricked out falcon. Shoot it from the side or the back and things just get easier. A marine with a lascannon should kill it about 1 in 8, btw.

Syko, I hate to be the bearer of bad news here... but if you're playing 3 on 1 there's and losing there's one of three things happening here.

1) The Tau player is cheating.
2) You're playing on a large flat board with cover in only the Tau quarter.
3) You guys are awful. A mobile Tau force is sorely lacking in number of shots. You should not be taking this many casualties.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for taking the time to do that Wetware, it's interesting to see the numbers.
 

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Wetware them being the 13/12 threshold I, as a opponent, wouldn't waste a las cannon shot on them, auto cannons definitely, las cannons put at crisis suits ;)
It just seems more viable to me, but it could be my odd target priority rolling around in my head.
Thanks for the math though! :)
 

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Tau are not broken. Are they a tough army when played correctly , yes but so is any other army when put in the hands of a skilled player.

People that usually say an army is broken because they don't know how to exploit the armies weakness. People usually charge straight ahead with no thoughts on tactics and are surprised when they get shot to pieces and they can beat them. I don't think any army is broken even when space marines armies were taking 9 assualt cannons, I just have to adjust tactics. Tau can be beat by using longer range barrage weapons on the warriors and by assualting them. For my orks I use lobbas that do not need line of site to hit as well as big shootas that have a longer range than tau guns. I use trucks and scorchas to race up and dump off assualt troops or hit them with flame temples. THe tanks are hard but not impossible to handle.
 

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I don't believe they are broken. They just have incredible advantages in certain situations. Just like playing a necron army or a high cost tank in a 500 pt game gives you a major disadvantage; certain terrain configurations, situations, and units will give the Tau MAJOR advantages. If an army has no bikes, jet/jump packs, tanks, or deep striking units, then a tau army can flank and completely destroy it with much ease and few (if any) casualties. However, even against an incredibly mobile army, they are still a force to be reckoned with. I don't believe they're broken, but I do believe they should be slightly weakened or have their points cost increased slightly.
 

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Eh, the only broken thing about the tau is that fast skimmers are broken, and they can take fast skimmers. That does not make for an entire codex being broken. Falcons are far more difficult to kill. And honestly, fire warriors having better guns than any other basic troop choice? Big deal, I'll take a marine's ballistic skill and armor save any day.
 

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The problem with Tau is that they're extremely difficult to engage in close combat, which is their only real weakness. I don't think the codex is broken as a whole... but I do think that the mechanized builds which combine the dimensions of a devilfish in combination with how the rules are worded is kind of lame. It's just not really any fun to play against. I invariably get shot down at the starting line, so to speak.
 

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Okay, so I've recently begun collecting and playing a Tau army. I chose them mainly because I like the models, and I wanted an army that plays different from my Dark Angels.

I've seen and heard a few comments online and at my local store that the Tau are a broken army, some people have even said that they will refuse to play a Tau army for that reason (not that I was looking for a game, I was just buying a few models). Now, I'm generally a hobbyist first and a gamer second, but I decided to build my Tau force for gaming, as I selected my DA units mainly for aesthetic reasons.

It's pretty rare I even go into a store looking for a game, but when I do, I'd like to be able to find an opponent who isn't going to bitch about my army, as I heard enough sly remarks about my Space Marines (though nobody ever refused to play them).

I don't think Tau are a broken army, they are an army with very obvious strengths and weaknesses, and I guess that can be exploited either way.

I was wondering what the people on here think of the Tau Empire. Broken? Or not?

Shit, this was meant to be in general 40K. Could somebody move it please?


I posted a Tomb Kings list on WargamerAU, the response I got was amusing to say in the least. Included was general verbal abuse about being "A cheesy dick" to threats of violence if they ever met me.

What was the problem? The list had two Screaming Skull Catapults in it. Go figure.

To be honest, your complaint isn't the first I've heard. I've seen several people ask the same question about Tau due to responses from peers, and invariably it boils down to the army isn't broken, just your opposition hasn't got a fucking clue.

Hit them with a stick for me, please. :)
 

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I do think atm that tau are one of the stronger armies out there and there is little that is great at taking them out. They've got the best anti-heavy vehicle solution in the game (railguns/broadsides) and nearly the best light vehicle solution (missile pods on crisis suits as well as a boatload of str 5 ap 5 throughout the army). They're hardly unbeatable though. As soon as they fix skimmers, hammerheads will be about as good as predators. Also fish of fury is pretty easy to get around for cc armies that don't rely on transports or a 6" move.
 

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I agree. Tau are most definitly not broken. Fast moving units, namely Assault Marines, LS, Bikes and such will rip the tau a new one without breaking a sweat. Assault Cannons can deliver blows to their tanks and infantry like nothing seen before. a single deep-striking dreadnought with an AC and HF will lay waste to anything nearby in its first turn, then distract a fuckload of fire in their turn. multiple dreads doing the same thing, and then termies with 2 AC's is just ouch. or do the reverse, sit back and shoot, on a standard board 48 inches is plenty enough to hit things on the other side, so things like ML, LC and other long range weaponry can, and will out shoot the tau.

The Tau may be able to mount large guns, but definitly not enough of them. The most Railguns you will get in one army is 9, and thats freakin expensive and will not be seen at a standard 1500 point battle. say 2-4 railguns. compare this to the amount of lascannons a SM army can take. 1 in every 5 man squad, plus 3 mounted on a tank for 145 points. then theres Devastators. i wouldnt put it past a LC heavy 1500 list to have upwards of 7 or 8 lascannons, far out-gunning the tau. 7-8 lascannons vs AV 13 or below will rip the tau to shreds. and the str 9 ap 2 will kill all but the most hardy battle-suits outright. firewarriors, take a few units of FA, assault marines or even LS and those firewarriors are screwed.

i acknowledge the fact that this was written from a SM point of view, but just substitute similar weaponry from your own army in and you get my drift. Tau are not broken and can be beaten, just move to one extreme or the other, dont hover in the middle, because that will lead to your demise, unless you are very skilled.
 

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Broken definatly. however only for the fact of the skimmer rule, and that their normal gun has strength and range above all other standardized weapon's for other armies. a mechanized tau force can and does use its unkillable tanks to keep its weak in close combat troops out of said combat, thus negating their only weakness.... i cannot wait for fifth edition, and i pray the games workshop master minds had enough foresight to fix this horrid mistake. i play regularly at our game store and no one beats the tau player... ever. we've even played 3 on 1 matches with all playes playing equal points.. the tau player generally looses maybe a crisis suit... its rediculously wrong.
I'd rate that statement on an accuracy chart at about... oooh say a 2/10. 1 rank below A Current Affair report. :p
 

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Tau are no more broken than Eldar, IG, Necrons, Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks, etc. Anyone who says differently is a coward.

As you mentioned, Tau have their weaknesses and strengths, just like any other army. There are many ways to exploit those weaknesses, if one is willing to try, and not whine about how their army cannot handle another. That is simply not true.

Please do not let whiners ruin your enjoyment of the game.
Hear hear...
 
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