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Craw-Daddy
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Deep striking meltas vs. Range Lascannons

In many ways, (I'm speaking primarly for the chaos codex) that lascannon has become obsolite.

I prefer not to think of it like that however. I still see many uses for the lascannons though limited of course.

Firstly, I actually prefer using my obliterators with lascannons at a distance more than deep striking them and using their meltas.

Reasons:
1. you are not guaranteed to be six inches from the tank you want to bust
2. almost every single time I see obliterators getting deep striked, they may blow up the tank or cause serious damage, however they get assaulted and in most cases whipped out. This is a lot of points to lose just to blow up a tank.

The cheapest way of doing a deepstrike melta strike is basically using terminators or chosen. At least thats what I find. But is it really worth it I ask myself. To wait and wait till the roll is in your favor. For those who have had been lucky with their rolls... i congratulate you. But I must say I'm the type of person who gets the percentage of the roll. So half the time I'll get it second turn and so forth. And I must say, even though the statistics have proven right, it doesn't really work well.

Predators with lascannons fully equiped aren't a bad deal either as long as they have daemonic possession. What I find is that a predator is much like a creature with a toughness 9. I mean if you look at it like this, a rocket launcher on the front part of the armor needs a five, and a lascannon needs four. Same as shooting at a creature with toughness nine... which there are none. Anyhow, I prefer that than having obliterators with toughness four that instantly die when getting picked off by most special weapons. Whoops... just saw 75pts go out the window. Of course you could give the same scenario with predators, but I must say the statistics are more in favor of the predator. However... one must be weary of the usage of melta guns being used now a days. People have become almost stupidly fanatical about sacrificing units with melta weapon to blow up tanks. The surprising thing, is that it is often the "nubes" or the least experienced players that tend to use the get my squads so close to the enemy so I can blow up a tank and watch my unit get chopped up to pieces soon after. Don't get me wrong, I have also seen some good players use the same stratedgy, but obviously not to the extent where every unit if deep striking right into the face of the enemy to blow up tanks.


I will show you my example. Though I did not have a chaos army during this instance. I had a space marine army against a space wolves army. In which he was basically deep striking (Podding) his army. They deep striked/ podded 3 units first turn and blew up a rhino and one of land raiders. Heavy loss, I must confess, however they were not able to blow up my redeemer and in one turn I was able to destroy every single model that was before my entire army. Huge chunk on my redeemer of course. If someone really wants to do use this stratedgy the best way to get rid of them is to do exactly what I just did. So what, you may lose some expensive vehichals here and there. However, because he is using this tactic he is making his force vulnerable by sending his army piece meal to you. Pick them off as they come, but make sure you destroy them utterly. Assaulting may not be the best idea, but if it needs to be done to eliminate the remaining forces until the enemy pods another unit... than its worth it.

Lastly, the last unit I'd like to refer to you guys about is the melta rhino assault. Preferrably using death guard, but can also be used by regular csm units. Highly effective against mechanized armies, however, the one thing I've realized after they are done blowing up their objectives is that the game gets a bit messy. Basically the melta rhino assault is grabbing a bunch of death guard and/or csm marine units in rhinos with meltas that charge the field to the other side. They get the job done, but as soon as they are finished they are no longer useful as they leave themselves vulnerable to special weapons attacks. Usually these units are ill equiped to deal with assaults so when facing armies with terminators, tyrnaids, or any units that are good at close combat fighting they will fall apart. Most players have them under ten man strength anyway so the losses from any special weapon fire just makes them more vulnerable.

Anyhow, just wanted to help the heretics out there who are confussed about what units to take in order to blow up other tanks. What to do if those units are not functioning well and so forth. I appreciate any other comments as long as it is made to help the other heretics out there.


As a furthernote, I have not included the other units that have meltas or lascannons because I do not believe them to be very helpful, though they may get the job done. For those heretics who support these units, go ahead and explain your reasons. I will just brief you in the reasons why I don't like to use them. If I'm forgetting any, let me know.

Dreadnought- Way to crazy to handle, and not worth having it effect your units.

Bikes and meltas- .... way too expensive and easy prey for special weapons.

Jump Troops- unreliable when deep striking. I've noticed that even atheists pray when they deep strike these fellows in hope they will land six inches to target. I much prefer these troops as assault troops with the MoS. When playing my space marine army I love players who play these units... perfect for my redeemers...

Land Raiders- pretty expensive but if they work for you... then kudos.

Defilers- more than likely never going to use them because you'll be using that cannon all the time. Otherwise it will be in close combat or destroyed. Therefore a waste of pts.
 

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Basically we're outdated by the much cheaper ig triple melta vets in chimeras, the BA razorback lasplas, the hive guard/zoanthropes, or the space wolf multitarget super inexpensiveness.

Basically we got owned. Our anti tank is four simplistic choices at the end of the day, we have obliterators, who fire lascannons or multimeltas(Mostly lascan), five raptors with two melta guns and icon of glory(Like 130 pts all together?), a daemon possessed vindicators(ALWAYS fires, s10 ordinance), or outflanking rhino'd chosen.

The chaos pred costs too much to vye against other tank hunter options, our land raider SHOULD be escorting zerks up the board(Or staying in the box as CLR are bad.)

So basically we have to use things that cost five times the value of their target, or we just cry to the good codex gods that we'll be graced soon. Those are the options.
 

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Aren't Havocs an option? They seem to have a variety of options that lets them range from tank hunters to horde killers, although their purpose overlaps with chosen in many respects.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Aren't Havocs an option? They seem to have a variety of options that lets them range from tank hunters to horde killers, although their purpose overlaps with chosen in many respects.
You are correct, I forgot that unit. But they are pretty much a done deal anyway anti-tank wise. Havocs are way too expensive. Though they do have some uses as you can theoretically have the most anti tank support being carried in that unit. I've seen people try to lower the number from ten men to 6 man units. Though, those tend not to work as they a nice weak target for those units seeking close quarters.
 

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Well, I tend to run them in squads of five inside Rhinos, loaded with RLs or ACs. They match the point cost of a suicide Chosen squad with meltas and EA on their Rhino.

I'm also a fan of Predator tanks, but I have to be more careful about leaving them near table edges, as a full squad of GS jumped it and made mince meat out of it.

If I were to run Havocs along with a Predator, should I run them with ACs or RLs?
 

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Both ACs and MLs are 20 points. Thank you for the tip, it'll help me in future battles.
 

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Also something to chew on, no matter what you deepstrike in, or outflank with, it has to be cheap enough to be sacrificial and worth it, but also has to be reliable.

In example, outflanking chosen with four meltas WILL KILL that land raider, three hits, 2 pens, kaboom. And the squad didn't cost nearly as much as the LR.

But what if it's like IG leafblower? you'd need to take the 70-80 pt obliterator and hope it kills two chimeras before it goes down, or blow open a russ, the other options are just too expensive to gamble on, imho. Except maybe the raptors, they move fast, will hit with a melta gun(having 2 means you need to fail a mastercrafted marine shot to fail, hitting on 3s, so statistically you hit) and with the improved threat range of jump packs, you're almost assured to get into melta range.
 

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I've been using a combination of Havocs and Oblits to good effect. The Havocs aim for AV12 and down and the Oblits shoot anything above.

I think it is worth point out that the value of Havocs doesn't lie in their tank popping abilities, but rather in their ability to take down light armor as well as murdering Monstrous Creatures and punching through the armor of MEQ. The number of shots (4 ML in my case) cannot be reproduced by any other HS in the codex and doubles the number of shots you would get were you to spend the points on Oblits.
 

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Chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino, outflanking. One of the best anti-tank squads around, cheap and super effective.

Havocs can take special weapons or heavy weapons or a mix (which i have NO idea why you would want a mix.) You can also put them in a rhino, that is potentially 6 squads of 5 and 4 meltaguns respectively.

Defilers rip open tanks, terminators with chainfist and combi-melta are also very effective.

Land-raiders are fun as well. People shouldn't bitch about chaos having no anti-tank options, they have plenty, just about as many as codex marines in my opinion. Including the best, again in my opinion, HQ in the game for its points, la deemawn prancee.

My personal favorite anti-tank option for chaos is pickin' up that big ol' heavy, metal chaos dread and chuckin' it at your opponents models.
 

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...pickin' up that big ol' heavy, metal chaos dread and chuckin' it at your opponents models.
A less than calm former friend, did that with one of the old Screamer-Killer Carnifexes. I have not been able to watch Phantasm without wincing since.
 

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Don't count out our troop choices, Plague Marines can get 2 meltas in an MSU and CSM can get 2 at 10 and for both choices champs can get a combi and so can the rhino they should be riding in. Out of boredom the other week I gave the MSU PMs a test and they worked great 4 PMs 2 meltas and Champ w/Fist is 210, pretty expensive for 5 guys but reliable and still tough (assuming you're not staring down the barrel of a plasma gun). 2 meltaguns will pretty reliably deal with just about any tank, even if it's just immobilizing it so your fist can finish it off with auto-hits on the back.

I'm still a big fan of termicide and never leave home without at least one and usually fit 2 into my tournament lists. At 105 they're among the cheapest and the (arguably) most reliable spot removal.

Oblits are still great as well, I never DS them. W/ 2X2 oblits on the field you can generally remove 3 light transports by turn 2, then switch to the plascannon and clean them up or TL Plasgun and MC hunt or TL Flamer and clear out scouts/objective campers. Their flexibility and ability to move and shoot heavy weapons is their appeal.

Then there is that Daemon Prince, he breaks shit, period. Throw in Warptime and even moving vehicles find little shelter.

Now, Havocs and Chosen are both decent options. I don't like chosen because they're a bit too expensive and can't take a hit. If you run them as cheap as you can, 5 bodies won't cut it. If you beef them up they get stupid expensive very fast. I would also never give them 5 melta guns. That's overkill and about 20 points you can spend elsewhere. I ran them 2x melta 2x plasma back when I did run them. Havocs I've been looking at since I always have 1 heavy slot open and they would help with light armor MCs and hordes. I think Autocannons are the way to go with them, I know ML are the new big thing in the tourney scene, but at 20 pts a pop I just don't think it's worth it. As far as I'm aware Havocs are the only unit in the game that can take 4 autocannons, that's 8 S7 shots at 48" every turn they stay alive, stick them in cover and I can see them doing well.
 
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