Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Welcome one, welcome all! I have noticed around Heresy and other places that there are a growing number of people taking up pre-heresy armies. I’ve also noticed there seemed to be very little in the way or resources for them. So, I have/am writing a tactica article which will encompass all the “generic” options for a pre-heresy army. This means that I won’t be doing any of the Primarchs/special characters/legion specific units or discussing legion specific rules at this time. I may well do a later article on those, but for now it’s just the standard Crusade army list.

However, that’s not to say we can’t have fun with your bland legion choices. Oh no, we’re going to have a LOT of fun! With that…

Contents (to be updated as time goes on)

- Some things to note (Version 2.0)
- HQs (Version 3.0)
- Elites (Version 6.0)
- Troops (Version 2.0)
- Fast Attack (Version 3.0)
- Heavy Support (Version 2.0)
- Lords of War (Version 2.0)

Special Mentions:
Now that this tactica article is largely complete, I just thought I'd say a special thanks to those of you who have helped to inform these sections through their comments and criticisms. Since I don't quote them directly, I figured they deserved some recognition. As the article changes and more people comment, I will likely add more folks, but for now thanks to:

Some things to note (Version 3.0):

Some things to note off the bat. Firstly, in your Crusade Army List, you can have 1 more HQ and Elite than you can in the usual army list in 40K, which is nice. Secondly, the Crusade Army List has its own Warlord trait table. I personally don’t think you can bank too much on Warlord Traits to help you in the game, but it’s worth noting. Thirdly, and probably most importantly, marines in a Crusade Army List do not have ATSKNF! That means that you can be cut down if you lose assaults, meaning you have to pick your fights carefully. They have Legiones Astartes, which means they can regroup regardless of casualties, so it’s not all doom and gloom.

Wargear (Version 2.0)

Right, so it’s worth having a discussion about some new, or should I say old, pieces of tech that the Crusade Army List has available to it.

Shooting stuff (Version 2.0)

Archaeotech Pistol (Version 2.0)

It’s a S 6, AP 3 pistol, with Master-crafted and since it’s pretty much exclusively taken by BS 5 characters, you’ll rarely miss. It is only 1 shot at AP3 though. Pretty nice, but not as nice as some bits of kit you can have.

Graviton Gun (Version 2.0)

If you want to kill people, 40Ks version of the Graviton Gun is better. If you want to slow down a nasty assault unit, this’ll probably do the job pretty well.

It is a heavy weapon and a blast weapons so can’t snap shot. Hence you should probably keep it on models with Relentless or tanks/chariots/artillery/etc. However, the blast template stays and counts as difficult terrain, which is a nice addition for an otherwise underwhelming gun. It also has haywire, which can really come in handy against tooled up Spartans who seem content to shrug off your lascannons, multi-meltas, etc.

Needle Pistol

A S 2 AP 5 pistol with Rending and Poisoned. Maybe useful for shooting some big beastie, but it’s only one shot a turn, so probably not.

Phospex grenades/shells

30Ks Napalm but worse. S 5, AP 2 with Poisoned(3+), Blast/Large Blast, it’ll clear out most things pretty effectively. Plus, wherever it lands is treated as dangerous terrain. One of the gems IMO.

Rad grenades

If you’ve read the Grey Knight Codex, you’ve seen these. Still just as nice.

Rad missiles

Krak missiles that half their strength in exchange for Fleshbane and whenever they wound a model, it’s toughness is reduced by 1 for the rest of the game. Perfect for making bikes/MoN/Nurgle Daemons/Wraith-things a bit easier to kill with standard weapons.

Volkite weapons

Slightly higher strength than a bolt-weapon but suffer a 3” decrease in range for it. Also have a nice rule, Deflagrate, which means that when they cause an unsaved wound, the unit suffers another his from the weapon. Sadly, these don’t cause addition wounds, but still it allows you more effectively decimate low-armour hoards.

Choppy stuff


AP 4 close-combat weapon. Nice for getting through GEQ and the like.

Charnabal Sabre

Not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. They’re AP -, but it does have Rending and you get +1I in a challenge. If you are strapped for points and want to give your sergeant an edge in a challenge, feel free. Also occasionally useful (if you are lucky or have lots of them) of helping your guys get through AV10-12, but otherwise there are better options if you can spare the points.

Paragon Blade

Another gem of the Crusade Army List. For a start, it’s an AP2 weapon that strikes at initiative. It also gives you +1S. Plus, any wounds of 6 cause Instant Death. Basically, whenever you can, take this.

Other stuff (Version 2.0)

Augury Scanner (Version 2.0)

Stops infiltrators setting up within 18”. Plus if deep striking reserves arrive within 18”, all Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons get Interceptor.


This is a package deal. It includes an Augury Scanner, Night Fighting plus a model equipped with it may buff a unit within 6” with +1BS instead of shooting. Pretty sweet.

Boarding Shields(Version 2.0)

Basically, Combat Shields that give you defensive grenades. It’s worth stating here for clarification sake that only one model need have defensive grenades for the whole unit to benefit. So throw a cheap centurion with boarding shield in your 20 man tactical blob or something and it’ll help you weather charges a bit better.

Legion Vexilla/Standard

A unit with a Vexilla can re-roll failed morale checks, which is vital when you don’t have ATSKNF. Standard gives you a 6” Fearless bubble.


Gives you a 6” bubble of no scatter and allows the model equipped with I to draw LOS for other barrage weapons. Meaning you can park you artillery behind a building and let these folks direct them.

Terminator armour:

Now, you might be thinking “But we have Terminator armour in 40k, why are you mentioning it?” Well there are a few differences. One is that Terminator armour doesn’t give you Deep Strike in 30k. Some legions can buy it and one Rite of War can give it to Terminators, but in general 30k Terminators have to walk/be carried around.

Two is that there are actually two types of Terminator armour in 30k. One is pretty much the same as the one in 40k, minus the Deep Strike. The other is called Cataphractii and gives a 4++ instead of a 5++, but it makes you Slow and Purposeful rather than Relentless. So no Overwatch or running, but you Terminators all have Iron Halos basically.

Vehicle stuff

Anarbic Claw

You know James Bond’s car from Tomorrow Never Dies where it is electrified? It’s basically that.

Auxiliary Drive

Ignores Immobilized results on a 4+. Pretty nice

Flare Shield

Reduces the strength of Template or Blast weapons by -2 and everything else by -1. Slap it on Spartans and laugh as most things can only glance your AV14.

Kheres Assault Cannon

Better than your average assault cannon, since it has 6 shots, not 4. But otherwise the same.

Laser Destroyer

Basically an AP 1, Twin-linked Ordinance Lascannon

Predator Cannon

Basically a Heavy 4 Autocannon


A Large Blast Melta. Say no more.

Rites of War

These are basically ways you can augment your Force Organisation. Each Legion has a specific one, but in the spirit of “generic Legion tactica” I won’t comment on them. They allow you things like taking Drop Pods/Land Raiders/Storm Eagles as dedicated transports, or having Veteran and Terminator squads as troops. Beware, though they do come with limitations and so can take some forward planning/more strategic thinking to use effectively. But since you can chose them it’s entirely possible to build an army around them, unlike Warlord traits.

Legiones Astartes:

It is worth noting that in Forge World's most recent publication they said that unlisted legions may chose between Furious Charge and Stubborn as an army-wide USR to compensate for the fact that the listed legions have unique army-wide rules. So if you were playing a legion like White Scars or Space Wolves you might pick Furious Charge to represent their savage charges. Similarly, Ultramarines or Dark Angels might pick Stubborn to represent their...stubbornness? Or you might defy convention and just pick one on a whim. Either way, it's worth factoring in.


In Conquest Forge World followed Games Workshops suit and offered relics to the 30k armies, all of which are around the 40 points mark and can be given to independent characters. You can also only have one of each per army, obviously. Much like the Rites of War each legion has its own specific relic, but there are some generic relics that I will discuss here:

Nanyte Blaster

With a 12” range, S 5, AP 2 and Fleshbane you might think “Isn’t this just a slightly better Archeotech Pistol?” And you’d be all wrong and a bag of chips. That’s because of a nifty rule called Uncontrolled Replication. Basically if you kill a model, you have a 50/50 chance of it exploding in a Blast of more S5 AP2 which can make people it kills explodes too. This blast doesn’t differentiate between friend and foe so either hang back and fire it or put it on a model you don’t mind losing. However, if you are lucky it can decimate your opponent’s battle line, especially if they have had the colossal poor judgement to put his army shoulder to shoulder (Phalanx Warder squads I’m looking at you). One of the better relics in my eyes.

Warp Shunt Field

Slightly below the benchmark in terms of price and for that you get a 3++ invulnerable save against shooting attacks. Plus whenever you save a shooting attack on a roll of a 6 it’s “directed back at the enemy” provided they draw line of sight. Although in reality, it’s only ever D6 S5 AP -, regardless of whether you were shot by a Quad Lascannon or a bolt pistol. Considering some legions get 3++ in both shooting and assault for like a third of the cost of this relic, for a little gimmick that is unlikely to do anything game changing I can’t recommend it unless you have a serious thirst for 3++ on one guy in the shooting phase.

Phase Walker

Now you can make an in-game version of that Raven Guard bloke from Angel Exerminatus. Basically, instead of your normal movement, the character you attach this to can teleport to anywhere on the table. However, there is a catch. If you can’t draw line of sight to where you want to go, you take a Dangerous Terrain test for every solid object you pass through between where you are and where you want to be. So you do run the risk of killing yourself. You also can’t use it to get out of assault, a building or a transport. You also count as having Deep Striked so you can’t appear and then assault. Maybe it could be useful for a last turn objective grab or something. All in all not that great then, especially since it’s as much above the bench mark as the Warp Shunt Field is below it. Can’t recommend really, no matter how cool it seems.

Combat Augment Array

When the rules for this were first released, everyone in 30k seemed to collectively orgasm, as it seemed to allow you to, for one turn, count every dice roll by one character as a 6. Since then Forge World have said “No, that’s not how it works.” Now we know that it allows one character, for one turn to count a single dice roll as a 6. Once the turn is over you take a Toughness test for every remaining wound you have and if you fail you get no saves, not even Feel No Pain, against it. Maybe it’ll save your bacon one time when your Praetor inflicts instant death with his paragon blade or something, but it’s just not reliable enough to warrant costing nearly 40 points. If it was like 15 then maybe, but as it stands, no.

Cloaking Array

The Raven Guard players will like this on. It does what it says on the tin really. For one game turn, your super-badass character curls up into a ball and sucks his thumb (meaning he can perform no voluntary actions, can’t be in a squad or assault) and your opponent’s feel so sorry for him they can’t shoot him or charge him. That is unless of course the person targeting him is a psyker or a daemon, who don’t care and shoot/charge him anyway. If they do so, the jig is up the rest of the army can shoot him again. Potentially useful when combined with the Phase Walker to make your guy appear behind enemy lines, disappear briefly and then uncloak the next turn and start chopping things up. Although, you’ll be paying 85 points for relics alone at that points so who/whatever you are teleporting behind enemy lines better bloody well be worth it.

Void Shield Generator

Basically you put a large blast marker over the character and anything inside is protected by an AV 12 wall that they can shoot through. Any glancing or penetrating hit will cause it to collapse and if you suffer an Explodes! result, everything under the Large Blast suffers a S 6 AP 4 hit. If the shield isn’t exploded, you can get it back on a 5+. If you put it on the Siege Breaker/Master of Signal that you’ve got with a Heavy Weapons team, you’re giving them some serious fire protection. If not, it’s always good fun to walk up the field with some unit protected by a AV 12 wall that they can shoot through and assault from. Along with the Nanyte Blaster, one of the better Relics for me.

Questions/comments/criticisms are welcome at any point :eek:k:

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Right with that out of the way, onto actual units.

HQs (Version 3.0):

Right, so bland HQs are pretty limited. There are basically 2 options; Praetor of Centurion. There’s also a command squad, but that’s part and parcel of the Praetor. So let’s have a look at your options.

Praetor (Version 2.0)

30Ks Chapter Master equivalent. I won’t list his stat-line but he’s the same if not better than his 40K counterparts in terms of stats. Comes with Artificer Armour as standard which is nice. Also has some of the widest array of close combat weapons to choose from. However, his ranged capabilities are limited so you can’t make a shooty character even if you wanted to. Really, these are your slice-and-dice characters.

He can also take terminator armour if you like giving up Sweeping Advances and your grenades. Yes he gains Relentless, but there’s no option to give him a heavy weapon so it’s mostly wasted. Plus, buying him an Iron Halo is cheaper if you want an invulnerable save. He also has the option to take a Paragon Blade, which you should always do when you can for reasons already mentioned. He can also take a Jump Pack, Bike or Jetbike.

He also enables you to take a Rite of War and a command squad, which you don’t have to do but both are nice options to have. Also, he gets to roll twice on whichever Warlord Trait Chart you want and you can pick your preferred result. So, with the new rules for the combined arms detachment, you can re-roll that. Sure it doesn’t guarantee you the trait you want, but if gives you an increased chance of getting it between 4 dice. Although, that is only if you are playing with the 40k rules. If you are using the Age of Darkness FoC and such like, things like bound armies, objective secured, rolling twice on the Warlord traits table don’t exist.

Now, after all that you’re probably thinking “Why would you ever not take one of these guys?”. Simple answer is the cost. A bare Praetor is 100 points and to give him all the goodies you’ll want to give him, the cost will climb to the 150-200 points mark quite easily. So I don’t tend to include him in lists below 2000 points, just because I don’t like having 10% or more of my list sunk into one dude. But if you do, more power to you.

So, to summarize, a great CC character with lots of options but also has a reasonably large price tag.

While I’m here…

Command squads

Yes, command squads. Now these can only be taken if you take a Praetor, much like in 40k marines. They also take up the same HQ slot as Praetor. To be honest they are fairly similar to your 40k marines honour guard. They can take almost everything the Praetor can, save the Paragon Blade and any invulnerable save except for either a combat shield or terminator armour. But they can only take terminator armour if your Praetor has terminator armour, so that might be a reason to take it. They also get a Legion Standard which, as I mentioned earlier are a godsend since it gives you a 6” Fearless bubble, which is great for keeping your frontline troops from running away and being cut down. It also stops, assuming you run them with your Praetor, your very expensive HQ from legging it and being killed in Sweeping advance after one bad round of combat.


Centurions are 30k’s Captains. Except they only have 2 wounds, which makes them more fragile than some people would like. They don’t come with artificer armour as standard, but then neither to Captains. They have almost the same options as a Praetor (at the same cost near enough), except they can’t take a Paragon Blade, an Iron Halo, Digital Weapons or make their weapons Master-crafted. So you can still use them as cheaper beat-stick characters to slap down most things up to and including Captains. However, they can’t take a command squad and don’t allow you to take a Rite of War. They are half the starting cost of a Praetor, which is a good way to save on points if you need to.

Now you might be thinking “Only 2 HQ choices, isn’t that a bit bland? It seem like you have a choice between a beat-stick and a more fragile beat-stick.” But you’d be wrong. You see, there’s one thing I haven’t mentioned yet, and that is…

Consuls (Version 2.0)

These are upgrades you can give a Centurion to reflect all the different types of commanders in a Legion. Let’s have a look:

Chaplain (Version 2.0)

So Zealot is nice in, say, a 20 man assault/reaver squad or another close combat unit, but that’s the same with 40k Chaplains. Unlike his 40k counterparts, who are stuck with a Power Maul, your 30k Chaplain can have whatever style of power weapon you model him to have, so his Crozius can be a power sword or a power axe, depending on what you want. I would keep him as bare bones as possible and leave him at the back of the squad, driving them on (as he should be).

Master of Signal

Definitely not a close combat Centurion. Most of his combat options are limited and he doesn't add much if anything to a front line squad. However, he has a Cognis-signum which is very nice. Another bare-bones Centurion you slap in a 10 man heavy weapons squad, keep at your back and tear your enemies to shreds with your BS5. I would put him in a squad of 10 with Volkite Culverins for 40 shots, S6, BS5 with Deflagrate. That’ll hurt any infantry unit and probably successfully glance to death AV12 or lower.

And a D3 S8 AP3, Large Blast, Barrage once a game helps too!

Legion Champion

+1 WS and a single weapon gains Master Crafted. He has to accept and issue challenges, so if you don’t tool him up for that you’ve picked the wrong guy. If he was 10-15 points, I'd consider it, but it's not worth it for 35 points IMO, since he doesn’t add anything else to your army.


+1 to cover saves, Scout, Sniper, special ammo, and the potential to gain Infiltrate and Move Through Cover (at the price of a 4+ save) is...well it's ok. Scout is good for, well, scouting some unit forward. Synergises well with recon squads (30k scouts. More on them later). Plus the Sabotage! ability is nice too, although it likely won't do much. Potentially kill one or two MEQs or a Rhino, but not much else. As with Master of Signal, his combat options are severely limited.

All in all, IMO rather lack luster, and I don't think worth it. If you want to scout a unit forward, buy them a Rhino. They cost about the same.

Librarian (Version 2.0)

I like Librarians a lot! They don't have a Psychic Hood like they're 40k counterparts which sort-of hurts, but not much. Since only their chainblade/combat blade is replace with a force weapon, you can replace it's bolt pistol with another close combat weapon (I like Force Axe + Lightning Claw. Then you can either use AP 3 Claw for MEQ or AP 2 Axe for TEQ). Plus, they can have up to 2 Mastery Levels and can have them in any discipline.

Now the bad news. First, and biggest is the cost. You have to pay 25 points and then buy at least one Mastery Level, which costs extra. So for a Mastery Level 2 Librarian it'll cost you 65 points, before further upgrades and the cost can rack up quickly. And if you pay that much, a 2W character is a bit fragile. Second is not so bad, but you have to generate all your powers from a single discipline. No mixing and matching. However, all in all I think Librarians are great and can really boost your army and be a close combat beat-stick.

Forge Lord

Basically a Techmarine HQ. More options (as they have both the options for a Centurion and a Tehcmarine) and can repair tanks. Nothing to write home about, but still pretty good.

Primus Medicae

Gives FNP to a unit and gives you a 1/3 chance of getting a victory point whenever your opponent kills a unit you are within 6" of. It can be aligned to any unit, so is more versatile than a regular Apothecary and can have all the close combat options that a "standard" Centurion can have. If you just want FNP, buy a regular Apothecary, it's only 10 points more. If you want your Centurion and his unit to be a bit more survivable while they're chopping things to mince-meat, I'd say he's worth it...just.

Siege Breaker (Version 2.0)

The Siege Breaker is very similar to the Master of Signal. He has a Nuncio-vox. He has and confers Tank Hunter and Wreaker onto the heavy weapons of any unit he joins. He can also buy Phosphex grenades, which it a bit paradoxical. You either sit him at the back with a load of lascannons or missile launchers and blow up vehicles/fortifications, or run him forward and lob napalm grenades on steroids. He also lets all Legion Medusa’s take Phospex shells for free, meaning you can just saturate your opponents lines with dangerous terrain pie plates. One of the better Consuls.

Moritat (Vesion 2.0)

His CC weapon options are limited and the only way he can move faster is with a Jump pack. He can only join Destroyer squads and can't be the compulsory HQ. Only one thing save him; Chain Fire. Basically, he's BS 5 and he keeps firing his pistol until he misses with it. This happens with both pistols. However, Forge World recently edited our friend here so that when he’s Chain Firing with plasma pistols, they overheat on a 1 and a 2 and an overheat stops the Chain Fire for that pistol. So now it’s harder to evaporate a squad of terminators with one lone nutter. However slapping two volkite serpentas on him for clearing massed infantry is still a viable tactic I feel.

People say he's broken, and in a way he his. But he's also easy to eliminate and has to be on the front lines for his ability to be worth anything. Plus, you have to buy another HQ as well as him to have a Bound army and he can only hide in a 3+ armour squad, meaning if you try to give him a 2+ armour to protect him, he can be Focus Fired out.

All in all, a neat broken ability, but situational at best and, IMO, nothing to write home about.

That's all for today. I shall have more for your in good time. Again, would love to hear your comments/criticisms :victory:

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Elites (Version 6.0):

So today we are going to talk about elites, which are thankfully more varied than the HQ section. But with 10 total options you could have for your Elites, you can understand why Forge World gave us 4 Elites slots instead of 3! Anyway, let us begin…

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (Version 4.0)

A rule you will quickly discover in 30k is “Bigger is better”. For example, the Veteran squad starts out as 5 lads which are 25 points each, but if you make it a 10 man squad the average cost is 20 points. They are basically Tactical Marines with 2 A and nothing else changes really in terms of Stats. Interestingly they have a bolter, a bolt pistol and a combat blade/chainsword, so they get a total of 4 attacks on the charge before you’ve even paid to give them anything. One in five guys can take a special weapon; Volkite/melta/plasma/flamer, lightning claws(s), heavy chainsword, but also heavy bolter or missile launcher (which can have Flakk missiles for a cost) both heavy weapons have with a Suspensor Web. They can also all take Power Weapons and you can equip the entire squad with melta bombs for 25 points, regardless of the size of the squad (another reason to take a large squad).

The final thing to mention is they get “Veteran Tactics”. This means at the start of the game they can have one of the following USRs: Fearless, Sniper, Furious Charge, Outflank or Tank Hunters. In summary I think they are a pretty solid choice. Good mix of shooting and CC. You can tool them all up with Power Weapons and Furious Charge and run them at MEQs/TEQs (depending on your weapons), but it’s worth remembering they only have a 3+. Alternatively, give them two meltas and all melta bombs, Outflank and go vehicle hunting. Or, another great thing that is worth considering is taking 2 heavy bolters and give the whole unit Sniper. Then laugh at Big Tyranid bugs, Wraithknight, Wraithlords, Riptides, Greater Daemons, etc

Also they get Implacable Advance which, in a bound army, gives them Objective Secured. Nice :victory:

Legion Terminator Squad (Version 2.0)

They’re terminators, what more do you want? A barebones squad of 10 will set you back 325 points, which I’m certain that’s cheaper than their 40k counterparts. They’ve got combi-bolters and power weapons to start, but they can all take power/chainfists, lightning claws and thunderhammers. They can also take volkite chargers. And one in five can take an Assault 2 plasma weapon, which is nice. They also have the option to take a grenade harness, which gives you assault grenades for one turn. Sure it’s not constant grenades, but it’ll save your bacon and let you tear apart that unit that thought it was safe in cover from your terminators.

They also have a rule where they count as scoring units whenever troops could as scoring units, which was really good in 6th because you could park terminators on objectives. In 7th edition, Forge World has clarified that in a combined arms detachment that they get objective secured. That’s pretty good.

All in all, pretty much everything you’ve come to expect from terminators, but at a discount. Plus, if your army is bound, they get Objective Secured even without being troops! Eat your heart out 40k Space Marines.

Legion Destroyer Squads (Version 2.0)

If you enjoy breaking the Geneva Convention, condemning your foes to an agonising death by radiation poisoning or throwing napalm at people, you’ll find yourself in good company with the Legion Destroyers. They come armed with two pistols (so a nice +1A in assault), rad grenades and the sergeant can be given up to 3 Phosphex bombs and one in 5 models can have a rad missile launcher with a suspensor web. They can also take jump packs.

So, if you can would something like a GUO or Carnifex with the missile launcher and then charge, they suffer -2T on the first turn which is nasty. Even if you’re only facing single wound models -1T will help their weight of attacks carry them in combat against things like tactical squads or assault squads. If you combine their charge with things like your Praetor + Command Squad, terminator squad or assault squad, you can really start to do some damage. Best used in tandem with other units I find.

However, there is an issue that I haven’t touched upon and that is their price tag. For a starting squad of 5, it’ll cost you the same as a 10 man tactical squad. A 10 man squad will cost you the same as an 10 man assault squad, and then you’d have to pay another 75 points to give them jump packs. Already that’s one unit that costs 325. Plus if you want to give them missile launchers, Phosphex bombs, etc those are all more points. It’s easy to spend 400 points on this one unit. Are they worth it? With the missiles, Phosphex and melta bombs and jump packs, they can wreak some serious havoc, but I would only use them in high point games (i.e. 2500+) where it’s more justifiable to sink 430 into a single unit.

Techmarine Covenant

This allows you to buy 1-3 Techmarines as a single Elites choice, although they are independent during the game. Sadly, they can’t take servo-harnesses like their 40k counterparts, but they can all have conversion beamers. They can also have the 30k equivalent of servitors, which don’t have mindlock, they just have to take a pinning test without the techmarine. They aren’t Independent characters though. Basically, if you have a large number of vehicles/an artillery line, get some of these guys. Otherwise, don’t bother, unless you really like conversion beamers.

Apothecarion Detatchment

Another 1-3 choice. Basically you buy however many Apothecaries you like and your can put any of them in any power armoured/artificer armoured squad that are on foot. At a measly 45 points, you want to be putting them in your largest squads. Put them in your 20 man tactical/breacher squads and you’ll be paying a measly 2.25 points a model to give them Feel No Pain, which it a pretty sweet deal. Plus you can give them Augury scanners for anti-infiltration/pseudo-Interceptor. The other option is to put them in your high value squads like your command squad or your heavy weapons squad and give them an extra line of defence from bad dice rolls/high AP weapons. Either way, for a reasonably low price-tag, I would always include at least one detatchement.

Legion Dreadnought Talon

1-3 Dreadnoughts as a single Elites choice. I think you might begin to see a pattern here. As with the terminators, these guys are pretty much the same as you standard 40k Dreadnoughts, except with a few differences in load out, such as you can’t have an assault cannon but you can have a flamestorm cannon. They’re also BS5, which I don’t know if 40k Dreadnoughts are. If you like having lots of Dreadnoughts walking around, this is the unit for you. They are just as useful and just as versatile as you have always known Dreadnought to be, so I’m not sure what ‘new’ I can say about them.

Legion Contemptor Dreadnought Talon

Pretty much the same as above, but you have to understand the difference between Contemptor and normal Dreadnoughts. The difference is that Contemptors are better. For starters they have front AV 13, not 12. They have a 5++ against shooting and a 6++ in combat, which’ll save your bacon a fair few times. They have a higher base strength. They have fleet. They can take Kheres Assault Cannons and Heavy Conversion Beamers. Plus they just look cooler! They cost 50 points more, but if you have the points I would say always go for Contemptors.

Legion Mortis/Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought

Pretty much the same as the two above entries and the same differences apply, except in these units you only take one of the Mortis/Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnoughts, rather than 1-3. However, in this case, the arm weapons of both arms must be the same (i.e. both twin-linked lascannons/heavy bolters/etc). Also, if the Dreadnought stays stationary and doesn’t Run in its turn, it gains both Skyfire and Interceptor for your turn and your opponents turn. Really, this is the first bit of anti-air we see in a Crusade army list.

Interestingly, the Mortis Dreadnought costs the same as one of the regular Dreadnoughts, but the Contemptor-Mortis costs 20 points less than the regular Contemptor. So, if you only want one Contemptor, pick one of these and get a discount on points, plus a bit of AA while you’re at it. Sure you sacrifice your S10 AP 2 Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, but for a lot of people the risk of random melta-bombs or sergeants with powerfists stops people charging their Dreadnoughts in. Plus, in 7th shooting is king so…

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (Version 2.0)

The Thunderfire’s 30k cousin. Except you can take 1-3 of them. And they’re only 40 points each. And they have S 5, AP 4, Heavy 6 Twin-linked shots. They can also have Laser Destroyers, Quad Mortars or a Graviton Cannon. A pretty cheap way to get a reasonable amount of Dakka on a highly resilient platform into your list, but considering the other options in the Elites sections, I wouldn’t reach for them first. That being said, they are very good if you’re strapped for points and in need of dakka. The exception really is the quad mortars against hoards. Point for point quad mortars are the horde clearance weapon of choice, especially useful if you gain the warlord trait thats gives some units with blast weapons shred, but that’s not too dissimilar from Thunderfire cannons in 40k.

That's all for now folks. Stay tuned! Again, comments and criticisms, as well as any thoughts or experiences you can offer, are welcome :eek:k:

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Troops (Version 2.0):

Welcome back for another instalment of this Legion Tactica article. Today we will be talking about troops, the bread and butter of any Legion List. Well, since 7th edition dropped maybe not so much anymore, but they are still worth a look. In the Crusade Army List, the troops are divided into two categories; those which can be taken as compulsory troops and what are called Support Squads. These Support Squads “may not be used to fill compulsory Troops selection slots on the Force Organisation chart”. But we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it. So, without further ado…

Legion Tactical Squad

Starting squad size is 10 for 150 points and a full squad of 20 is a meagre 250 points. Unlike their 40k counterparts, they have no options to take ‘special weapons’ (i.e. Plasma guns, Melta-guns, Rocket Launchers, etc). There are three configurations you can have for you tactical squad.
1) Bolter + bolt pistol toting marines
2) Bolt pistol + chainsword marines (sometimes called Reavers)
3) Bolter + bolt pistol + chainsword, but that’ll cost you extra.
Really it depends what you want. If you are playing Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Night Lords, or some other combat heavy legion you might go for the Reaver configuration. If you want a disciplined gunline ala Imperial Fist, Emperor’s Children, Iron Warriors, etc then the first configuration might be better.

They also have a neat rule called ‘Fury of the Legion’ which basically allows you to fire twice as many shots at the cost of not being able to fire next turn. It can turn a rather nasty combat unit bearing down on you into a more manageable size, help you thin out some hoards or (as I have done) glance light vehicles (such as Dreadnoughts) to death before they can turn your nice Tactical Squad into jam. All in all, nothing too special, but they are a cheap and sturdy gunline.

Legion Assault Squad

Pretty much identical to 40k tactical squad except they can go up to a 20 man squad for 400 points. By comparison a 10 man squad is only 250. If you’ve got 30-60 points to spare you can give them all a combat shield for an invulnerable save. Other than that, if you wanted to take an assault squad in 40k, you’ll want to take their 30k cousins.

Legion Breacher Siege Squad

Only slightly less for a 10 man squad as for a 20 man tactical squad. So what do you get? Well you get a boarding shield, which is nice because it give you an invulnerable save. They have bolters as standard. You get special armour that lets you re-roll failed armour saves caused by blast or template weapons, but your sweeping advances and runs suffer by -1”. Unlike Tactical Squads, you can give them special weapons like flamers and melta gun. You can make them into a 20 man squad. They have additional survivability, so I’d use them mainly as objective huggers, since as a gun-line your bog-standard Tactical Squad are cheaper and better with Fury of the Legion.

Legion Tactical Support Squad

Here we get onto our first Support Squad. In case you were wondering what happened to all the plasma and melta guns that occupy the 40k Tactical Squads, here’s where they went. You start off with a 5 man squad with 5 flamers. You can make them into a 10 man squad and give them all Rotor cannons, Volkite Calivers, Plasma guns or Melta guns. Give them a Rhino and run them at your opponent’s tank line/terminators with melta/plasma.

The bonus is that you can have a 5 man squad, with melta/plasmas and a Rhino for 210 points, which isn’t that expensive all things considered. The downside is that all marines have to be equipped with the same weapons, so no mix and matching. Contrary to the standard Crusade Rule of “bigger is better”, I would buy them in small squads with a specialised role, much like CSM Chosen.

Legion Reconnaissance Squad (Version 2.0)

Our other support squad. Basically your 30k scouts. Unlike 40k scouts, they start with power armour. They can downgrade to standard scout armour and they gain Infiltrate and Move Through Cover. Even without scout armour, they have Scout, Acute Senses and Outflank. They can also all take Melta-bombs and Cameleoline (basically camo-cloaks) at a price. Starting size of 5 and max size of 10. The other nice thing is that, unlike 40k scouts, they have BS4 rather than BS3.

They do however have a rather serious draw-back; their price. They cost as much as a Veteran Tactical squad, but they don’t have Veteran Tactics or a close combat weapon. Plus they have to pay to upgrade their bolters to sniper rifles. To give 10 of them sniper rifles, you could buy a 20 man tactical squad. This means they function poorly in the role their 40k counterparts have of being back-field objective holders. They do however let you take Storm Eagles as dedicated transports, so for a tax you can have a fair few flyers without needing to take the Angel’s Wrath RoW, so that’s something. Overall, I can’t recommend.

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Fast Attack (Version 3.0):

Welcome ladies and gentlemen for another instalment of Tactics of a Legion. Today we’re talking about Fast Attack, as you may have guessed from title. I can’t think of some witticism to go with this, so I’ll share with you a line my friend told me which should successfully end an argument with someone who just won’t listen to you.
“Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn’t matter how good my moves are, you’re still going to poo all over the board.”
Without further ado, here’s my breakdown of the Fast Attack choices we have, and there are a lot!

Legion Seeker Squad (Version 2.0)

Right so here we have a squad that costs the same as a terminator squad, so it better be pretty good. I suppose the obvious question is, are they? Well, let me answer that question with another question; would you buy sternguard at the price of terminators? That’s basically what they are. Except they can make one enemy character or unit their Preferred Enemy. And they’re BS 5.

Now, in previous iterations I stated that they weren't worth taking. However, Forge World's most recent Errata they gave them Implacable Advance meaning they get Objective Secured in bound armies. That makes them a bit more worthwhile IMO, although I'm still not convinced it's the best choice. But BS 5, Preferred Enemy, Implacable Advance, Special Ammunition and the options for combi-weapons and the like certainly make them an ok unit if you wanted to take them.

Legion Outrider Squad

Here’s another unit I really like. So you start off with three lads for 90 points. They can go up to a squad of 10. They can replace their twin-linked bolters with flamers, melta-guns or plasma-guns. You have to pay for a sergeant, and he can have the generic close combat weapons most sergeants can have. He can’t have artificer armour though, like most sergeants. They can all take melta-bombs and they all get Scout. Now, this might not sound like much, but allow me to compare to an earlier unit; Legion Tactical Support Squad

Let’s look at the comparison:
- Legion Tactical Support Squad + 5 Plasma-guns + Rhino = 210 points
- Legion Outrider Squad + 1 additional Space Marine Outriders + 4 Twin-linked Plasma-guns = 220 points
So they have the same movement, until the Rhino is destroyed. They have the same BS, but the Outriders get an additional attack in Close Combat due to two close combat weapons. Also, the Outriders are T 5. Plus, the Support squad can only fire 2 of their guns for their 12” movement, and the Outriders are twin-linked. Now you can argue that the Rhino offers extra protection and once they get out you have more shots (if they all survive), but with the constant 12” movement and increased toughness, plus the advantage in combat which they can do after shooting thanks to Relentless, I think the Outriders are a pretty brilliant unit, especially when compared to similar units.

Legion Attack Bike Squadron

Now, if you were liking what I was saying about Outriders, you’ll probably like these guys too. It allows you to have up to 5 Attack Bikes in one unit. Same deal as before, 2A, 5T, 3+ with twin-linked bolters, 2 close combat weapons and can buy melta-bombs. Except now they have 2 wounds. Yay! Plus, they have a heavy bolter as standard, but you can give them a Heavy Flamer, Autocannon or Multi-melta. So for 250 points you can have 5 Relentless twin-linked bolters and multi-meltas running around. I’d say that’s a pretty good deal, especially for tank hunting. Or 200 points for 5 Relentless twin-linked bolters and heavy bolters and mow down hoards.

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (Version 2.0)

Now here is a unit I really want to like. I really do. But 5 of them with heavy bolters costs 5 points more than 5 attack bikes with heavy bolters and the Jetbikes have only 1W and no twin-linked bolter, I find myself asking why you would take them. They can have Multi-meltas, Volkite Culverins or Plasma cannons, but only every 1 per 3.

Again in previous iterations I slandered these units and said they aren't worth taking. However, as was recently pointed out to me, Forge World changed what a Jetbike does so now any model equipped with a Jetbike gets a 2+ save. Meaning that although 5 of these guys with heavy bolters cost 5 points more than 5 heavy bolter attack bikes, they now are twice as survivable with Deep Strike and the ability to move over intervening terrain. Similar to the Seekers, this change moves them out of the pit of "Tactical Suicide". Does it make them the most effective unit point wise? No. There are still more cost-effective ways to get dakka that can't be easily killed by bolters (see predators, fire raptors, sicarans and that ilk) but it's certainly given me enough of an incentive to pick some up and now you can as well without feeling like you're buying a unit that'll never be as useful as they are pretty!

Legion Land Speeder Squadron

Land Speeders! Basically a 1-5 unit of land speeders. They cost 10 points more than an Attack Bike to start, and they come with a heavy bolter as standard, which can be swapped for a heavy flamer or multi-melta. They can also buy a Havoc Launcher, another Heavy Bolter, Plasma cannon or Graviton gun. On the one hand, with 2 hull points and AV 10 all round, they can be easily glanced to death. On the other hand, the new vehicle damage chart makes them harder to explode to death. Plus jink could help. Not the best choice, but also not the worst.

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship

The Storm Raven of 30k. Well, slightly different armaments and a transport capacity of 20, so a bit different. It starts with mostly anti-infantry weapons (twin-linked heavy bolter and missiles), but you can give it a twin-linked Multi-melta and twin-linked Lascannons on the wings. Starting at 210 points, it’s a reasonably pricy unit, but being durable and having a decent range of weapons will see you through most things. Although, don’t let the name fool you. This is not a gunship. It’s a transport with pretty good guns strapped to it. Don’t think of this as your AA option.

Tarantula Sentry Gun Battery (Version 2.0)

Honestly, these confuse me. These are basically automated weapons platform that fires at the nearest target, but the targets it wants to shoot depend on what weapons you give it. You can give it (all twin-linked) a heavy bolter, a heavy flamer, a rotor cannon, a lascannon or a multi-melta (not twin-linked but you get a searchlight, for what it’s worth). Also, for 50 points per gun (you can have up to 3) you can basically have a krak missile launcher with skyfire, interceptor and re-rolls to hits on fliers or fast skimmers. So 150 points for semi-decent AA stuff. Arguably, Comtemptor-Mortis Dreads are not much more in terms of price and with BS5 they are more accurate (5/6 hit rate vs ¾ hit rate for the Tarantula) and can choose their targets, and so are a better AA-platform. However, if your Elites choices are already jammed full, they might be worth at least considering. Overall not bad but since you have no real control over what they fire on I can’t recommend in most situations.

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (Version 2.0)

A 2 hull point, AV11/11/10 flyer that starts with a twin-linked lascannon and you can upgrade to carry various weapons and bombs. Cheap when you start buying it but with all the various armaments it can get expensive. Easy to equip as both an infantry bomber or a flyer killer. Although, in neither case would it be the first thing I reach for. The one stand out build is to add 4 kraken turbo penetrator missiles, with S8 and armourbane, they are a good way to deal with flare shielded spartans, hence the nickname - Xerxes pattern.

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron

Now we have a 2 hull point, AV11/11/10 skimmer for almost as much as two attack bikes. Both, I’ll remind you, can be killed by bolters, but only one has a 3+ save and can still fire it’s weapons without snap shooting. It’s got a heavy bolter and basically a missile launcher that fires twice, either krak or frag. You can give it a twin-linked lascannon instead, but I wouldn’t. Again, not the first thing I’d reach for in a frankly obese Fast Attack choice section.

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod

It’s basically a drop pod that acts like a hovering flyer after it deep strikes instead of being immobile. Plus it’s an assault vehicle, so if you can keep it alive for a turn you can disgorge a deadly 10 man assault-y unit and they can get straight to it. The other nice thing is it can be bought as a dedicated transport for a 5 man terminator unit. It has a kind-of-flamer attack which I won’t go into. As I said, it’s basically a AV12 all round drop pod that can move after it lands.

Wew, that was a long section. Again, any comments would be greatly appreciated!

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Heavy Support (Version 2.0)

Aaaaaannnnnnddddd…I’m back! Sorry for being gone for so long. With a busy summer and other things I kind of let this fall to the wayside for a bit since it’s one of those time consuming things I love but don’t always have the time for. However, I have managed to get some free time to talk to you all a bit more about the tactics of a legion and today we’re going to break down the Heavy Support choice for your 30k army of choosing. And there are quite a few!

Deathstorm Drop Pod (Version 2.0)

At some point in the Imperium’s history, someone looked at a drop pod and thought “Yeah we could put people in it…or we could pump if full of missiles!” It costs roughly as much as two regular drop pods and basically gives you 5 immobile missile launchers that can only launch frag missiles. You can pay for 5 2 shot krak missiles for a 1/3 of what the pod itself costs, but you then lose the frag missiles, meaning it lack flexibility. Due to the recent FAQ, on the turn it arrives from reserve each missile launcher fires D3 times at units, friend or foe, within 12". Even with that update though, it seems like a waste of points on something that’s not very flexible. Plus if you use it 1st turn and don’t kill a unit, you are practically handing your opponent First Blood.

Legion Heavy Support Squad (Version 2.0)

Ok, so these cost 15 points less than a tactical squad, but you only get half as many. However, they do come with heavy bolters as standard. These can be exchanged for just about any other heavy weapon under the sun for a cost. You can also make the squad size 10. Now, you might be asking why I haven’t akined them to devastators yet, like I have with terminators or the Fast Attack Sternguard. There is a very simple reason for this; they are not like devastators/havocs. This is because every single squad member can have a heavy weapon. Yep, that’s right, all 10 of them can tot heavy weapons. There is however a downside; they must all have the same heavy weapon. So no plasma/las/heavy bolter mixes for multiple duties. However, they do get access to Volkite Culverins, one of my personal favourite anti-infantry weapons. It is Heavy 4, S 6 to start with, but it also has the Deflagrate Special rule. Watch hordes of orks/guard/nid wither and die to them in droves.

Now, 10 lads with heavy bolters will cost you 10 points more than a terminator squad, which since they die twice as fast is pretty good considering they have the additional range and absolutely no need to march forward into enemy units to try and hack them apart. If you want 10 lascannons that’ll cost you almost twice as much, but 10 lascannons will scare the crap out of any tank, with any AV. Hell, that’s something I don’t think titans would be too happy about facing. Plus if you throw a master of signal in there to make them all BS 5 you are laughing, or a siege breaker for tank huner. All in all, they are probably one of the most reliable way to bring the most dakka/anti-tank stuff in one unit, but also probably not the most cost effective. And the fact that they all have to have the same gun does put a limit on how many duel duties they can pull, which they need to get the most out of their points. I would definitely throw an Apothecary in with them, as giving them all FNP will help you get the most out of them for just a little bit longer.

Legion Predator Strike Armour Squadron

Those of you with working brains will have noticed the word “squadron” in the title. Guess what that means? That means you can get more than 1 Predator for a single Heavy Support choice. In this case it’s 1-3 (because everything seems to be in the Legion list). They start of dirt cheap at 75 points. This doesn’t buy you much though, since at this point in time guns on the side of a Predator were an optional extra. On the sides you can put heavy bolters, heavy flamers or lascannons. On the top you start out with the predator cannon, but you can choose a flamestorm cannon, an Executioner plasma destroyer (eat it Astra Militarium), a heavy conversion beamer or a magna-melta. Oddly the Imperium hasn’t decided that putting lascannons on a Predator yet, so that’s not an option. You also have to buy things like the machine spirit and bolters on top, but that’s reasonably standard.
Realistically, the Predator is you main medium dakka bringer. 225 points will get you 12 S7 AP4 shots. By comparison a 10 man heavy support squad with autocannons will cost you 285 points and you get two less shots. 3 plasma destroyers (basically 9 plasma cannons) will cost you 330 points, whereas a 10 man heavy squad with plasma cannons will set you back 385 points. There is always the argument between whether a tank is better than infantry. A single lascannon will at most kill one lad, but could ruin your tank. On the other hand, you won’t see Predators dying to lasguns and bolters. All in all, they are more cost effective that heavy weapon squads and pull almost the same duty of infantry/light tank killers. Bear in mind that, since the only really reliable anti-tank weapons that the predator has in the Crusade Army List are the Magna-melta and lascannons (the two most expensive upgrades to buy), they are not your Land Raider hunters really. At that point, 10 lascannon dudes are better value for 45 points less. But yeah, if you want dakka, get yourself some predators.

Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron (Version 2.0)

Another squadron! It’s another 1-3 slot, but this time with god-damned Land Raiders! However you can pick between three different flavours of Land Raider. There’s your standard Land Raider (Phobos) which is everything we know and love about Land Raiders. There’s the Proteus, which is 50 points less, loses the assault vehicle rule, but can be upgrades to have an Explorator Augury Web, which either gives you re-rolls to your reserves or gives your opponent’s reserves a -1 penalty. Finally there’s the Land Raider Achillies, but with a quad mortar instead of the thunderfire cannon. It’s immune to Lance and Melta weapons and reduces all results on the vehicle damage chart by 1. It does only have a transport capacity of 6 and lacks the assault vehicle rule as well. You can have these in any combination within the squadron, but only 1 can be an Achillies variant. So basically if you really love land raiders, this is the unit for you.

Legion Fire Raptor Gunship (Version 2.0)

You know when I said that the Storm Eagle wasn’t a gunship, it was a transport with guns. Well, to paraphrase Crocodile Dundee; “That’s not a gunship, this is a gunship!”. It costs a mere 200 points and this is what you get:
- A S 6 AP 3 Heavy 7 Twin-linked nose mounted gun
- Two twin-linked Heavy 6 heavy bolters (Quad heavy bolters)
- 4 S6 rockets with Sunder (re-roll armour penetrations)
The quad heavy bolters can be upgraded to quad reaper autocannons, giving you only 4 twin linked shots, but all at S 7. Plus, the quad heavy bolters/quad reapers can be fired at different targets to all the other weapons (and each other) and don’t count towards the maximum number of weapons you can fire that turn. AND it has the Strafing Run special rule, making you BS 5 against anything that isn’t a flyer or fast skimmer. One of the gems of this section in my opinion. Even as I write this I’m not quite sure why I don’t own one…

Achillies-Alpha Pattern Land Raider

From the brilliant to the not so brilliant, this entry is 25 points more than its counterpart in the squadron section, except you can only take 1 for the 1 heavy support slot, it gets to re-roll dangerous terrain tests and gets twin-linked volkite culverins instead of multi-meltas. Other than that it remains unchanged, so I’d give it a miss.

Legion Artillery Tank Squadron (Version 2.0)

Another squadron, horray! Although it’s pretty fortunate it is a squadron because you can only have 1 of them in the army. You can chose 1-3 of the following (but no mixing and matching): A basilisk, a medusa and a whirlwind. A little more expesive than the entry in the Astra Militarium codex, you do gain BS4, but that doesnt make all that much of a difference when firing barrage weapons. Other than that they are exactly the same. The only change to the whirlwind is that it can give up its usual missile batteries for missile batteries which basically fire 1 krak missile with skyfire…I’m not impressed frankly. If you want AA options, there are much better ones than the whirlwind. As for the medusa and basilisk, well since they are largely unchanged if they are good enough for Astra Militarium they are good enough for you.

Legion Vindicator

Oddly, this is not a squadron for some reason(s) unknown to me. You just get one. It costs 120 points without the dozer blade and you can exchange its demolisher cannon for a laser destroyer array (an AP1, twin-linked, ordinance lascannon with a 36” range), but frankly if you do I think you have missed the point of what a vindicator is supposed to do. Another cop out section where I go “you already know what this is.” I think it costs about the same as it does for regular Space Marines. It’s good at what it does, and what it does is rolls forwards and ruins people’s days with S10, AP1 pie-plates.

Legion Spartan Assault Tank

Good god, this is a Land Raider on steroids. It has 5 hull points, quad lascannons (two twin-linked lascannons taped together) where a Land Raider has just regular Lascannons. It’s an assault vehicle, can have most standard vehicle upgrades, plus a few ones which are uncommon (like the flare shield). Now, at this point you might wonder “why does it cost almost 300 points?” That is because it has an absolutely massive transport capacity of 25 models. That’s right, you can throw 10 terminators, any primarch/terminator armoured hq in there and still have room. With 4 twin-linked lascannon shots, it can break open even the most stubborn of tanks (usually) and whatever you put inside will almost certainly ruin anyone’s day. Another gem.

Legion Caestus Assault Ram

You know those weird flying things the Space Wolves recently got because Games Workshop decided that any army that didn’t have a flyer in it wasn’t worth it anymore? Well the Caestus kind of looks like two of those duct-taped to either side of a fat melta-gun. It cost 10 points more than a Spartan and it only has a transport capacity of 10, so you might wonder why you would use it. It’s because of a lovely invention called the Misericord, which means that you get to ignore the Bulky special rule. So it’s not great from transporting regular joes or the larger primarchs, but if you just want to get 10 terminators somewhere really quickly then this’ll do that. It is also the only flier to have an AV higher than 12 (being AV 13 on both the front and sides). It also has a 5++ to any shooting attacks directed at its front armour. As I said, it has a magna-melta in the middle of it which will also suitably ruin most vehicles just as well as 4 lascannons. It can ram, but that’s not really worth talking about in 7th ed since ramming got nerfed.

Basically, between this and the Spartan there isn’t much sway you either way. One is a flier and one is a tank, so I suppose it depends which one you trust more. For me, it come down to the extra 2.5 terminator troop capacity, the 10 point difference, and the fact that if the Spartan dies, it is unlikely to kill all of its occupants. But there are plenty of merits to the Caestus too.

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (Version 2.0)

All hail the nipple gun! In all seriousness, this tanks does what it says on the tin; it destroys other tanks. It’s 2 shot ordinance S10 AP1 gun that forces and tank (even super heavies) it penetrates to only be able to fire snap shots the next turn. You can also strap heavy bolters or lascannons onto the side of it, purchasing either is a mistake, as the main gun is fired, it forces all other weapons on the tank to snap fire. The only real reason for doing so is to protect against weapon destroyed results. It has a higher chance of blowing up though, due to its ‘dangerous core’. Realistically, it’ll do its job and do it well, but it’s price tag of nearly 200 points make it a strong but not outstanding choice in my mind for fighting similar sized tanks.

Where it excels however is against Super-heavy tanks, since its gun forces “any tank (even super-heavy vehicles) that suffers a Penetrating Hit…may only fire Snap Shots on the following game turn.” And since most super-heavies have blast weapons as their primary weapons, you can temporarily neutralise super-heavies with a little tank. Point for point, being able to deny a ~700 point or more tank from firing with a ~200 point tank is well worth it.

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (Version 2.0)

Before you ask, I do these in the order they appear in the Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List book and I don’t know why the original Sicaran tank comes after the variant. In any case, whereas it’s Venator cousin deals with the big boys, the original Sicaran is the light tank/anti-infantry tank in the family. It has a 6 shot autocannon with Rending as its main gun, as opposed to the nipple gun previously mentioned. That might sound unremarkable, but consider this…it ignores jink saves. As before, it can take heavy bolters or lascannons. The lascannons will help against light/medium vehicles, which are the Sicaran’s natural prey. You can give it heavy bolters and hunt infantry, but there are better ways to do that. However, with a much more reasonable price tag of 155 points for it and the heavy bolters and the ability to laugh as Eldar players, hovering fliers and the like, it’s a pretty tempting option.

Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw

Aside from having a name no dyslexic could hope to spell, this thing is basically a 20 troop capacity with the assault vehicle. It also has 5…things which fire S 6 AP 5 Heavy 2 twin-linked shots which cause pinning and can fire at different targets, but I’d hardly count that as remarkable. It can fly around after it lands and has 5 hull points, which is pretty good. It also means you can have 10 terminators in assault by turn 2 (since it can come down turn 1 with drop pod assault). All this would be really good, but the 260 points price tag makes it less appealing in my mind. I’d just bit the bullet and get a Spartan. But, if you don’t have the 35 points to spend, or don’t need 2.5 extra terminators coming in, it’s a pretty good option.

Legion Whirlwind Scorpius

In my opinion, this is what the Whirlwind should be. It’s basically a predator shell with a rocket launcher slapped on the back. But not the crappy one the Whirlwind normally carries. No, this carries a Heavy 1 S 8 AP 3 Blast missile launcher. Plus, if you don’t move you get and extra D3 shots. And all that for less than a Vindicator. Weep ye MEQs, thy death is at hand!

So I hope you enjoyed my most recent offerings. Not long to go until we’ve covered all the vanilla options and I start thinking about discussing individual legion’s merits. As always, C&Cs are greatly appreciated!

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Lords of War (Version 2.0)

Welcome one, welcome all to the final instalment of ‘Tactics of a Legion’. It’s been a long journey (over 6 months by my count) but we have reached the Lords of War. Now as much as I would love to evaluate the relative strengths of the Primarchs, this is a vanilla edition so only those Lords of War available to all legions are presented here. So without further ado I welcome you to the final tactical breakdown of this article, where we will talk about tanks with guns so huge I fear they may be compensating a little…

Legion Stormblade Super-heavy Tank (Version 2.0)

Now this bad boy will eat almost 25% of a 2000 point list. Interestingly it cost the same a Ferrus Manus for those of you Iron Hand players out there. It has FA14/SA13/RA12 and 9 HP. You can two pairs of sponsons with a lascannon and twin-linked heavy bolter if you feel like paying another 100 points. A few pintle mounted guns can be bought, but you already guessed that. Now for that much you would be well within your right to expect it to do something phenomenal, and you might ask “does it?”

Allow me to answer your question with a question. Are two 7” Blast, S8, AP 2 or one 10” Blast, S 10, AP 2 phenomenal? If so, they yes it does. Good for under 2k, although given that it's gun lack Ignores Cover your opponent could quite easily mitigate the damage it does.

Legion Cerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer (Version 2.0)

For 100 points more than a Spartan you get…A Spartan! Well, not exactly. For one thing the RA is lowered by 1 point, to be sporting I suppose. It comes with a flare shield as standard though, so I suppose that kind of evens things out. It has one more HP than the Spartan but loses the quad-lascannons on the sides, although it can buy singular lascannons to mount on it. Or heavy bolters if you prefer. Its main gun it a triple nipple gun. It’s basically a D3 shot S 10, AP 1 gun that forces any vehicle it penetrates (even super-heavies) to fire snap shots next turn. However, if you whiff penetrating a tank or wounding a person, you could lose a hull point.

However, the problem comes when you consider you can buy two Sicaran Venators for about the same price and essentially get 4 shots with the same gun guaranteed. Across the two tanks you do have the same number of hull points, and you basically trade D3 twin-linked shots for 4 un-twin-linked shots. Also the Cerberus's Neutron laser had twice the range, the tank has 14/14/13 compared to a Sicaran's 13/12/12, the Cerberus has a flare shield as standard and a Cerberus can't suffer a weapon destroyed result like the Sicarans can. By comparison, the Cerberus isn't fast.

Basically, if you have no other Super-Heavy you plan on taking and you are thinking about taking two Sicaran Venators anyway, this tank might be the ticket for you. If not then I can't recommend it given the other choices.

Legion Typhon Heavy Siege Tank

A vindicator on steroids, basically. Mostly the same stats at the Spartan, except with 1 more HP and no lascannon sponsons (although, as before, single lascannons/heavy bolters can be bought back). It also gets +1 to the Thunderblitz table if you feel like running over people. But that’s not what we’re here for. No, as in every case in this section, we care about the gun. Basically it’s a 7” blast vindicator cannon that ignores cover saves. 24” range if you move, 48” if you don’t. Plus it comes in at only 17.5% of your 2000 point list. I can already feel the Iron Warrior and Death Guard players going weak in the knees.

Legion Falchion Super-heavy Tank Destroyer (Version 2.0)

Does what it says on the tin. With a twin-linked volcano cannon, two quad-lascannons and 12 HP, this tank will guarantee you many dead tanks. It rocks in at just over 500 points without upgrades, but its main cannon is still a Strength D large blast, so it will quite happily ruin the day of some terminators/a primarch if there are no more tanks about. Also great against gargantuan creatures. Basically, a good all comer Super Heavy

Legion Malcador Assault Tank

Ah, oh dear. It seems that an Astra Militarium tank got lost and wound up here. It cost only 5 points more than a Spartan, but it’s not even worth that. It’s basically a bloated Leman Russ. It’s also not worth taking, so we shall move swiftly on.

Legion Fellblade Super-heavy Tank (Version 2.0)

Cousin to the Falchion with much of the same armaments except it gets a price hike of 20 points and exchanges its Volcano cannon for a Fellblade Accelerator cannon. Either 7” blast, S 8, AP 3 or a small blast with S 9, AP 2 and Armourbane. It's turret mounted to it's got more maneuverability and longer range than the Stormblade. It also has 3 more HP and comes with quad lascannons as standard. However, it's main gun does drop an AP value and the Stormblade can fire twice. Really it's you're call. I find most players I face use a fair amount of 2+ saves so I'd want the AP 2 but in other meta's it's less common. I think they both have their merits.

Legion Glaive Super-heavy Tank (Version 2.0)

To start with I may have misjudged this tank, due to my underestimation of Haywire. I have however since learnt how potent Haywire can be and I am prepared to re-evaluate it. It rocks in as the most expensive Super-heavy, although between its 1+D3 hits on Super-heavies and its two quad lascannons, it can tear off 5-6 hull points a turn if you do well. So Super-heavies have every right to fear it. With a strength 8 AP 2 beam, it can do some pretty major damage to normal tanks too. With Ignores Cover it can also clear infantry off the board in a tidy fashion too. However, if you are using it solely for clearing infantry, you can find other Super-heavies that will do that job better and cheaper I feel. You take it to fight other Super-heavies. Everything else is just a bonus.


Super-heavy fliers. I’m pretty certain they are unchanged from 40k so if you like Thunderhawks then, you’ll still like them in your 30k Legion.

And that’s a wrap, sort of. I will get round to adding the vanilla relics into the first part and I will amend the existing sections as and when Forge World changes their stuff or when you guys have comments/criticisms that warrant a change in the tactical overview of a unit(s) (as happened with the Legion Veterans).

So yes, thank you all for reading. I hope this is useful to you and I welcome any comments/criticisms you may have for me. Cheers!

3,700 Posts
woah that was quite an interesting read! Keep it updated, man. That's probably the sole resource for 30k around the various forums!

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
woah that was quite an interesting read! Keep it updated, man. That's probably the sole resource for 30k around the various forums!
Thanks :so_happy:

Updated some of the first post and added an Elites section :victory:

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Updated the Troops section and edited the section on Legion Destroyers.

Premium Member
1,975 Posts
The thing about Praetors is that they give you Rites of War, which are a really big deal. They radically change the way you put together an army. You’ve got a few generic ones that anyone can have and each of the legions published so far gives its own specific rites as well. It’s worth mentioning that you can get rites from a few other sources, like Primarchs and some special characters who also have Master of the Legion.

I use the Pride of the Legion Rite of War for my Imperial Fists, which makes Veterans and Terminators troops. I really like this because I find both of them much more useful than the usual troops you can take. The way the economies of scale work in 30k can be odd, and works against tactical squads when you want to have a unit in a rhino or drop pod, because the base cost is for 10 tactical marines and you pay quite a lot for them – only 50 points less than you pay for 10 veterans and only 25 points less than for 10 guys with flamers in a support squad.

Veterans are kind of badass. They can have a couple of special weapons plus a combi, and some seriously useful special rules. Sniper is great now, for example, because they can rapid fire their bolters and wound anything on a 4+. Outflank is seriously useful. Furious charge, fearless and tank hunter all have their uses too.

Finding a unit for your Praetor to run with can be tricky, because they want to be in cc swinging their paragon blades at stuff, but don’t want to go all by themselves. There aren’t great bikers on offer in the Legion list so you’re probably looking at a jump pack or one of the seriously expensive assault transports.

I’m taking my Imperial fists to a campaign weekend in a few weeks and I’ll be running Alexis Polux as my HQ. He’s a special character and has the Master of the Legion rule. He’s also fairly mean in combat and not too many points. I’ve got a new Spartan to try out so my plan is to send him in that, with veterans in smaller games and termies, plus maybe a Chaplain, in bigger ones.

Terminators are cool and the models are fantastic, but they are a hassle to move around – especially Cataphractii since they can’t run. In the past I’ve used a Vigilator just for the ability to scout them 6” forward, gaining me a turn. A big squad in a Spartan obviously costs many hundreds of points, but a lot less than 2x5 in land raiders.

Premium Member
12,822 Posts
Unless you're using your Elites choices or going for full Terminators, you're not going to really need Terminators as troops - they score anyway. Their improved armour save is wasted when they're facing a ton of AP2 when playing 30K.

In regards to bikers - that's true. Until we get White Scars, I cannot imagine effective Bikers. I mean, they can run with Command Squads, IIRC, who can get access to some legion unique weapons - for example, Phoenix Spears or Nostraman Chainglaives. They have the benefit of 2+ Saves as well as a 2 Wound Ancient. Of course, you are struggling for a Rite of War which specifically benefits them, and you still need foot sloggers to sure up the slack.


Premium Member
1,975 Posts
A biker command squad is one fairly good option actually, I agree. I don't recall the cost but doubt it's even remotely reasonable! Still, T5 and 2+ save is a good start and you do get all the toys. I've actually made a biker character from the power-armoured Praetor for an event, so it's something I should look at. Of course, they'd be pretty vulnerable to the mass AP2 you mentioned before.

I don't agree about terminators not being survivable. They can spread out more thanks to their big bases, so things like predator executioners tend not to massacre them in the same way they do big tactical squads. They also live inside a Spartan, which becomes super-scoring when they are troops and does quite a good job of keeping them safe.

It's precisely to avoid those big tactical units, which seem to do very little other than attract massive pie plates, that I've gone for the option of taking other troops. That and the fact they can only hurt quite a limited selection of units with bolters and no special weapons.

There's also the footprint issue. If your power is spread through 100 models it's much harder to bring it all to bear. Inevitably, some of your guys end up spending turns running, doing nothing.

2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Veterans are pretty good, especially against things like Wraithknights, Great Unclean Ones, Riptides, etc. I'm just not convinced they're as good as you make them out to be. If you just have a unit of 10 of them compared to your standard tactical squad, whilst you do get one of those USR, they still have the same range, the same BS and the same armour meaning your more expensive guys die just as quickly as tactical marines. Plus, to give them all power weapons and some special weapons, you end up paying as much if not more than for a terminator squad, who with their 2+ and 5++/4++ (depending on their armour) and twin-linked bolters and relentless are almost, if not on, par.

I mean, each to their own, but I would rather have a tactical/assault squad base for my army and a few veterans/terminators to use on specific foes. I mean, whilst large tactical can attract pie plates, with their numbers they can tank it better than veterans who will be the defacto target if there are no tactical squads.

And for what it's worth, it'd be 290 points for a 5-man command squad all with bikes and power weapons.

As for the foot print issue, it depends on your range. If it's all 24" bolters, then yeah it's pretty hard to bring it all to bear and you'll have to run some turns. On the other hand, the more men you have, the more shots you can weather before your momentum is blunted. It goes both ways I think.

Anyway, I updated the Fast Attack section and I'd be really interested in hearing your opinions on that and keeping this discussion going :victory:

Premium Member
1,975 Posts
So with the veterans you obviously don't give them all power weapons. That would be a bizarre thing to do when terminators exist. They are about having a squad of 10 guys and a lot of flexibility. So when you come up against the guy with the typhon and predator executioner you don't sit in front of him, you outflank. When you meet a bunch of MCs you take sniper. Tank/monster hunters isn't a crazy option either and fearless is sometimes great too. Furious charge... yes. So basically not the same as tacticals.

On the subject of fast attack, I honestly tend to just skip this section entirely. I have a storm eagle and I enjoy using it. Actually disagree here again I'm afraid in that, while it looks like a transport (and is supposed to be one) it's actually a seriously good gunship and not that awesome a transport.

I basically think any kind of flyer assault transport is awful. You cannot ever get your assault unit into combat before turn 3, which is far too late. Added to that, the storm eagle obviously doesn't want to go into hover mode ever.

On the other hand, it's kind of ok as a gunship. Don't underestimate the vengeance launcher for a start, or the ability to fire it at a separate target with your machine spirit. A storm eagle with lascannons and a multi-melta can ruin the day of pretty much any other plane, or turn its attention to tanks/MCs while spewing missiles at infantry. It hurts things.

Now to be fair, a fire raptor is now probably a strictly better option. Those reaper autocannon waist turrets and the missiles just make it extremely versatile and able to engage multiple targets simultaneously. The storm eagle is kind of a fun toy by contrast.

It really does have to be said though that the fast attack selection is probably the weakest area of the crusade list. You can very easily make a good army, and probably a better army, without anything from here.

Hmm post 2000.

Premium Member
12,822 Posts
Perturabo allows it on turn 1. Sons of Horus have the reroll 1's, but that doesn't work with Perty because they're not Sworn Brothers - only World Eaters and Mechanicum are their Sworn Brothers.

Perturabo, with the Orbital Strike Rite of War, has 4 units of Deep Striking Terminators as Elites, which includes Tyrant Siege Terminators. With the changes to scoring, this is wonderful - unless of course you do like I homebrew, and that troops/Implacable advance is Objective Secured, in which case you may wish to take a couple of normal Terminators. All of these can deep strike first turn. Throw on some drop pods with 10 man breachers + 2x meltaguns to take out tanks.

You then back that up with World Eaters who have Rage, mounted in Stormravens via Angels Descent. Sure, they're only Tacticals equipped with BP and CCW, but they're cheap as houses. Throw in a Command Squad with Combat Shields and Charnabal Sabres (+1 Weapon Skill and Initiative in a Challenge, rending can get them through most Sergeants, while a Paragon Blade Praetor helps rip through elsewhere)

Something like;

Siege Breaker Cataphractii Armoured Centurion, Combi-Melta, joins Tyrants
Tyrant Siege Terminators x5
Tyrant Siege Terminators x5
Legion Terminator x5, Axes
Legion Terminator x5, Axes
Breacher Squad x10, Meltas, Drop Pod
Breacher Squad x10, Meltas, Drop Pod
Breacher Squad x10, Meltas, Drop Pod

World Eaters Praetor, Paragon Blade
World Eaters Command Squad, Combat Shields and Charnabal Sabres
World Eaters Apothecary, Power Sword
World Eaters Tactical Squad, BP+CCW
World Eaters Tactical Squad, BP+CCW
3x Transport Storm Eagles, 2x TL'd Lascannons

Not sure on points, probably around the 3k mark.

I agree in regards to the Fast Attack. Imperial Fists get good use out of it though - Phalanx Warders are FA. Then again, if you were going to be making use of them a lot, you'd use the Rite of War which gives you additional toughness and Hammer of Wrath - and makes them troops.

Storm Eagles are fairly decent Anti Tank and Anti Armour. They're no Vendetta's, sure, but at 265 for 2 TL'd Lascannons and a Multimelta, they're one of the few ways of dealing with things like Flare Shield Spartans without massively changing your army to include Suicide Melta Drop Podders, or Deep Striking Terminators.

I've not played around with Raven Guard, but a Dark Fury squad seems like something which can shred PA'd enemies reasonably effectively, and also counter some Terminators thanks to Raven Talons and gaining I5 charges. But the Darkwing is what the Storm Eagle wishes it was. It already has the Lascannons, but firing a Blind and Concussive Missile at an enemy unit before something like a Dark Fury, or even a normal Assault Squad jump in is going mess things up.


Premium Member
12,822 Posts
There was a ton of Stealth Errata included in it - and in regards to Spear, the Emperor's Children have access to Phoenix Power Spears if that's what you were referring to - these are insanely cool, one of the few at-initiative AP2 in the game. And considering that it's characters who have access to them, and EC Characters get +1 Initiative in a challenge, and indeed HAVE to challenge, you've got to fix up look sharp.

It is is also worth pointing out that some units are natively equipped with stated weapons - Techmarines are Power Axes, and Apothecaries can upgrade to Power Sword.

Edited to prevent later misunderstanding.


2,070 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The +1I in a challenge for Emperors children, is that in the Legiones Astartes or do you mean sonic Shriekers? Because I know they give +1 I in the first round of combat and that Charnabel Sabres give +1I in a challenge, but I've never heard or seen that Emperor's Children get it by default too?
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.