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Discussion Starter #1
I appologize if this has been discussed but I didnt find a thread that dealt with it directly and I didnt want to hijack.
So basiclly I am wondering two things:

1) How do you equip your tacticals.

2) And more importantly how do you get the most out of them.

I'll give an example. A 10 man tactical with a sargeant w/power weapon, a missle launcher and a flamer mounted in a rhino.
Now this unit is equiped for various situations. But my question is how do you go about making the most out of it. How far do you move? On what turn do you deploy? How do you handle getting assaulted? When to go for tanks vs troops.

I can think of a few games where I have gone back and thought "if only i done this instead" I am curious to what people here do to get the most out of this most versatile unit.
 

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I find that with most squads figuring out what you are going to use them for is the key to figuring out how to equip them. Specializing a squad tends to be better than mixing a squad to cover different roles. Eg keep heavy weapons together and try and keep the range of your weapons roughly the same. So heavy bolters together with ML and LC. Flamers go with meltaguns.
 

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I'm one of the few that tends to go against the grain when it comes to equipping Tactical Squads. While I see the logic behind giving your units complimentary upgrades I've never been able to make a Marine army that has specialized units work very well.

In my mind a Tactical Squad should be just that - Tactical. It should have the ability to handle (nearly) any situation and have the potential to hurt any foe. As such, whenever I take Tactical Squads (rare nowadays since the new BA rules have been released) they'd look like this:

Tactical Squad
Veteran Sergeant
- Bolt Pistol
- Power Fist
7 Tactical Marines
- 5 with bolters
- 1 with meltagun
- 1 with lascannon
Rhino APC
- Extra armor
- Smoke launchers

While expensive, it's fairly obvious that this unit has the potential to deal with about anything. If the enemy comes in great numbers like the Tyranids and Orks tend to, I use the bolters to thin their numbers and try to position the meltagunner in a way that allows me to 'snipe' the Nob or what have you in the unit (this is done by placing the model armed with a meltagun so that the only enemy model in range is the unit champion. It's tricky to do and doesn't work every time but it really pays off when it does). If the enemy is more elite like other Space Marines or Necrons I'll carefully look at the situation and decide if it'd be more tactically advantageous for me to stand and shoot or charge. Should I shoot, the bolters should bring down one foe while the melta can do the same. If I decide to charge, I'll fire the melta and pistol as I do, hopefully scoring a kill and tipping the scales in my favor, and then trust in the Veteran Sergeant's power fist to dish out the real damage.

Most players don't agree with this philosophy, however. It's fairly common advice to equip your units to do one thing and do it well and to leave any upgrades that don't help it do that job at home. In my opinion, specialized squads are meant for armies like the Eldar with their deadly Aspect Warriors. The basic Marine is pretty much the best model point-for-point in the game and every squad is versatile enough to be equipped to handle a great number of challenges.

Hope that helps,

Katie D
 

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if i had tactical squads i would have them with bolters and no heavy weapons if they had transport,

otherwise it would be heavy weapons and sit in cover
 

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It also depends on what chapter you've got. Blood Angel and Dark Angel tacticals have a whole different mess of considerations to take into account when equipping them compared to the rest of the SM chapters
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No particular chapter just what can be found in the main codex. I like katie tend to run my units whith a little bit of everything. I have a heavy weapon and assault weapon a rhino sargeant with P.fist. Some of the questions I have are:
So you deploy them on foot sometimes even if there in a rhino?

If in a rhino What turn do you want them out by?

Agaisnt very fast CC armies what do you use for counter assault?
 

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So you deploy them on foot sometimes even if there in a rhino?
Almost always. It prevents the Rhino from being blown up on turn 1 and them being entangled before being able to do anything. Maybe it's just me, but I rarely find it possible to completely conceal Rhinos.

If in a rhino What turn do you want them out by?
ASAP, for the most part. If the Rhino is in the open and exposed to shooting the unit its transporting is safer outside and behind it, using it as mobile cover.

Agaisnt very fast CC armies what do you use for counter assault?
Tactical Squads themselves can be used for counter-assaulting. Against armies that want to get up close and shred you, feed them a bait unit (something that isn't too expensive) and ensure that it survives the initial charge. In your turn, charge the attacking unit with a bunch of Tactical Squads at once. With 2 Attacks apiece on the charge and the Veteran's power fist you shouldn't have too much trouble dealing with just about anything.

Good luck,

Katie D
 

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I've got to agree with both Asianavatar and Katie, strange as that may seem. Asianavatar's right that figuring out what a squad is for is the key to equiping it. Sometimes though what it's doing is, as Katie says, just being a tactical squad, that can cope with a bunch of different stuff.

Some weapons combos are better than others, because different weapons are good at different things. For 'general' purposes, ie not knowing what you're going to put them up against, I'd say plasma gun and missile launcher, two really good all-round weapons. They work well enough in specialised roles too.

For tank or transport (or mega-nob) hunting, melta gun with lascannon or multi melta (I'm not a fan pf plasma cannons, too expensive when they go critical). For taking out lightly armoured troops, flamers and heavy bolters. Again, gotta stress, you can replace any of the heavy weapons with a missile launcher, any of the specials with a plasma gun, with only a slight loss of efficiency.

For vet serges, powerfist if you can, power weapon if you can't, maybe a combi-melta if you want his squad to hunt tanks and points aren't a problem. Or if you're really stuck for points, bolt pistol and chainsword if he's going into CC. If not, the holy bolter is your friend...

As for getting out of the rhino, well, it's means to an end. Is the squad a backup assault unit? A fire support unit? A mobile objective taker? You want to get as close as you can reaonably get (not in assault range if you're heading for troop concentrations!) without getting blown up. That's your call. But rhinos tend to survive better if your enemy is confused as to what to shoot first. Don't just get one rhino - it'll take one turn of anti-tank from the entire enemy army and melt. Get maybe 4 (or more).

Many may disagree; but that's my 2 quids' worth.

 

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I like to equip mine with weapons that can deal with the same sorts of enemies (IE not having a flamer and missile launcher in the same squad), but still equip them with versatile weapons so they can deal with different enemies. This means that I end up with a lot of squads of either 2xmelta or 2xplasma, or just 1 heavy bolter. I can see how having a mix of equipment could be useful too though. It basically boils down to whether or not you think you can always keep a squad doing what you want it to do or not. If you can: specialize them, and hope that your opponent doesn't do something that makes them useless. If you don't, then mix them and risk loosing some maximum potential from your squads.
 

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I'm a bit of a black sheep when it comes to Tactical Squads. Over the years, I've developed a very aggressive style with my Space Marines, and man-portable heavy weapons in Tactical Squads don't have much of a place in it. Almost universally, I bring a meltagun and arm the sergeant with a power fist and boltgun (admittedly, I use Trust Your Battle Brothers, but even if I didn't, I'd still leave the bolter instead of the pistol, I think.)

I also seem to have a rather unique experience with my Rhinos-- very rarely do they get blown up with anything in them-- they've almost always deployed their payload in the middle of the enemy army. That might be because there are much more serious threats bounding towards my opponent-- Assault Squads and mobile heavy weapons on Predators and Vindicators, and they tend to take the shots.

I prefer to meet people head-on, and leave fire support in the very capable hands of Predators, Vindicators, and Devastator Squads. Despite what people say, meltaguns really are sort of all-rounder weapons... they do the same thing to infantry as they do to tanks... nothing gets an armor save against 'em, and they're S8. Bolters are ample anti-infantry weapons, even at 24'', and the sergeant has the means to break almost anyone's back in close combat.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Excellent Ideas everyone Giving me a lot of insight. I am a long time chaos player but my units have always had such a specific role that its never been much question as to what to do with them. I do try and semi specialize my units. One full tac with plas cannon and plas gun. One in rhino with mulit and reg melta and one with ML and flamer all have sargeant with P.fist. And i find myself not getting the most out of them yet but I think the ideas will really help.
Katie the deploy out of rhino idea is great. Deploy them behind it so they cant be shot if it does no loss as you said and then first turn embark run it forward and deploy smoke.
Thanks for ideas everyone keep em comming.
 

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I am not a great love of anything that limits mobility with tac squads. To take a heavy weapon comes at a cost beyond points. I find you sometimes have to give up that juicy piece of cover or good shooting position to stay stationary and fire a heavy weapon. I consider the 'tactical' more movement than what they point at. In place of a heavy weapon I would rather take a rhino. You get and extra marine with the pintle mount and get a leap forward before it gets bombed. I would rather let dev squads do the heavy hitting and use tac squads to lob more shots. The points you save on tac specials can go on a cheap landspeeder or some such which can do the job better than a foot slogger.

Just my opinion mind you,

Zeldrin

ps. I am used to swarms so, naturally, when playing marines (chaos or loyalist) I carry over the same philosophy - el cheapo is my mantra =-)
 

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My tactical squads when I take them usually are ten man squads with a vet sarge with a power fist, a flamer, and a missle launcher. I then give everyone grenades. Then for deployment I deploy the squad as combat squads with the sarge and flamer in one and the missle launcher in the other so the launcher can stand and cover the sarge with his squad advances to hit soft targets and possible even a vehicle.
 

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Unfortunately Archangel, Codex: SM armies can't take combat squads (yet - we know it's coming!)

Janus - unfortunately, you'll probably rarely "get the most out of" your tac squads, if that means being able to fire all your weapons at the same target every turn. The point about tac squads is flexibility. They're not as good as dev squads at shooting; they're not as good as assault squads at CC; but their role is to be able to do both as required.

Ubiquitous makes a very good point: if you expect to be able to keep them to a task, in other words, to set the agenda for the battle, yeah, specialise them. Give them plasma or meltas for hunting tanks, ICs, anything with a high armour save. Give them heavy bolters and flamers for dealing with hordes. But you really don't want them to stray from the task you've set them - they'll probably be rubbish (it's hard to take out a Landraider with a heavy bolter and flamer, it's overkill shooting thirty orks with a multi-melta).

If they have to have a flexible battlefield role (ie, "tactical"), you really do have to accept that sometimes their missile launcher, las-cannon, flamer or whatever is not going to get a shot in. What you're equipping them for is a wide range of possibilities - some of which won't happen. That's just the way it is.

 

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I'm a bit of a black sheep when it comes to Tactical Squads. Over the years, I've developed a very aggressive style with my Space Marines, and man-portable heavy weapons in Tactical Squads don't have much of a place in it. Almost universally, I bring a meltagun and arm the sergeant with a power fist and boltgun (admittedly, I use Trust Your Battle Brothers, but even if I didn't, I'd still leave the bolter instead of the pistol, I think.)

I also seem to have a rather unique experience with my Rhinos-- very rarely do they get blown up with anything in them-- they've almost always deployed their payload in the middle of the enemy army. That might be because there are much more serious threats bounding towards my opponent-- Assault Squads and mobile heavy weapons on Predators and Vindicators, and they tend to take the shots.

I prefer to meet people head-on, and leave fire support in the very capable hands of Predators, Vindicators, and Devastator Squads. Despite what people say, meltaguns really are sort of all-rounder weapons... they do the same thing to infantry as they do to tanks... nothing gets an armor save against 'em, and they're S8. Bolters are ample anti-infantry weapons, even at 24'', and the sergeant has the means to break almost anyone's back in close combat.
^ agree ^

much better to keep the fire support to the vehicles and devs
it helps with building your army so that your not trying to figure out how to configure each and every Tactical Squad and/or Marine in your army and still be effective

and also the meltagun really is a decent well rounded gun
ive used it so many times to take out a jetbike/skimmer/tank then next turn, took out a decently important infantry unit
 

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Squad 1: Veteran Sergeant, Plasma Pistol, Multi-Melta and Flamer.
Squad 2: Veteran Sergeant, Missile Launcher, Flamer
Squad 3: Veteran Sergeant, Power Fists, Plasma Cannon, Flamer

Basically they all take out the big things with Heavy Weapons first. Then when the enemy gets close, the Bolters Rapid Fire and the Flamers kick in. Finally when it gets to Assault, the HQ choice helps with the first Assault and the rest usually cleans itself up with an Assault Squad.

All are 10 man, and once the Drop Pods come out in plastic, my tactics will change greatly...
 

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in my second list I run tac squads with a mix of weaponry. One has both a plasma gun and plasma cannon plus a rhino APC. So basically I can move up and harrass enemy units, or sit on objectives. Or, if im playing with an ally, combat squad them and have the 2 units perform different roles (I do play DA, but standard marines are gaining combat squad with the new codex :wink:)
 

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Where possible I love running 3 squads, all in rhinos.

One. with plasma gun and multi melta so everything has the same range within a turn and can take out several targets.
Two. Power fist, meltagun and then all bolters.... Basically the CC support unit for my assault squads.
Three. power fist, melta gun and heavy bolter, combat squads and have the rhino with fist and melta hunt tanks and other vehicles whilr the heavy bolter takes out the infantry....

This would be an ideal situation but I don't get them much so I usually don't use it:(
 

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10 man Dark Angel squad

flamer
melta bomb
plasma pistol
powersword
lazcannon
rhino with extra armor and pintle storm bolter

leave 4 grunts and laz in rhino and keep it still so rhino can shoot 1 squad and laz can shoot at heavy armor/ nasty mosters

take the other 5 (sgt flame and 3 grunts) and go forward looking for assaults to fight out.

to support the rhino i take a 2nd squad set up the same way and a whirlwind and place the rhino's back doors together and place the whirlie behind the inpromptoo wall and then ya got a solid defensive point that if it looks like it is gonna get assaulted ya can deploy all 10 (5 from each squad) marines and assault them instead add to it if needed ya can always roll out (if still up and running)
 
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