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Ancient Relic
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These are units that you don't see used very often in space wolf lists. Ok I understand that lone wolves would be quite situational, but could they not be used to some effect. Here is an example; a lone wolf with a combi melta and chainfist in termie armour. A good vehicle, mc and walker killer. So why is it that they are never used in sw lists. Swiftclaws, despite their shitty ws and bs could make a good shock assault unit if accompanied by a biker wolf priest or a wolf guard biker. Would this not be good for either mc or tank hunting , or even just to chop up some infantry?
Finally, whirlwinds, now I don't know too much about their effectiveness, but i imagine that they would work well against most medium and light infantry, being that it also causes pinning for being a barrage weapon. So can someone please illuminate me as to why these units are not used.
 

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First off, I dig your project log... I never thought of painting the wolf head helmet white... Here's my attempt



Whirlwind - There are better choices in the Heavy slots (Long Fangs) And if you're not down with the Long Fangs, then an AutoLas Predator is a better choice... And if you don't like the Autolas Predator, then you have a Land Raider option... Now given that the profile for the Whirlwind MML is sort of lame (It would be a lot more viable if it was krak/frag, but it's not) and that you have clearly more effective choices in the FoC, the whirlwind just loses out (which is sad because it's a cool model)

Lone Wolves - For me, I'm pretty tight on points at 2K and I don't perceive it's effectiveness outweighing it's cost. Also, to make them more likely to survive, you'll add in FWolves and by that time, you've got a lot of points tied up in a unit that's gonna rely on running most of the game to get into the fight and is easily swarmed/torrented.

Swiftclaws - Their shitty BS makes non-viable as a suicide melta squad. Also, their WS hurts them when your opponent strikes back. So for the points cost, I'd rather take a couple of Typhoons (which have a good BS and Melta/Krak for dealing with armor)
 

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Curiouser and Curiouser
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While there are a lot of viable options in the elite choice slot for space wolves I do enjoy taking lone wolves and they CAN be quite viable. I run more of a gunline and I field a lot of lascannons and missile launchers so I kit mine out as anti infantry lone wolves. Storm shield, MotW and two wolves is all I use and this thing more often than not reaches the enemy line and rips shit apart. After a game or two my friends finally deemed him a threat and he serves as a good bullet magnet absorbing 1-2 turns of fire.

Alternatively you could take a TDA lone wolf but here I feel they aren't nearly as useful. It is much easier for vehicles to avoid your chainfist and they become very costly

Otherwise I agree with the assessments on whirlwinds and skyclaws that everyone else has said.
 

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Swiftclaws accompanied by a wolf priest on a bike would probably be the best option for them and they only way they could possibly be considered viable.

I've often wondered about running three units of these bikers accompanied by wolf priests on bikes. Would look so cool on the tabletop.
 

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I don't think the problem is with thier WS... Even with a WS 3, they're still hitting MeQs on a 4+... The problem is that they will get hit by MEQs on a 3+ -- and a Wolf Priest just can't fix that...

But you are right in the sense that they would make for some cool models.
 

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Both Whirlwinds and Swiftclaws are generally worse choices compared to Speederrs/Fangs/Preds/TWC/etc and Swiftclaws are better used as normal BCs in a LRC and don't add reliable fast melta like other SM bike squads (main reason for taking them).

Lone Wolves are used quite often w/TDA/Chainfist/SS for a very tough unit to crack but there is competition in that slot w/IP, Dreads and Wolfguard so you're only going to see them in specific lists.
 

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Swift claws with a fist and a wolf guard with a fist are a reasonable unit and their T5 makes up for their lower WS. I have run them a few times but would really only consider them at 1750 points or more. I finda that a unit of grey hunters is sadly cheaper, more flexible and better.

The main problem with a lone wolf is that their are too many decent options to pick from in the elites section especailly with wolf guard taking up one slot. If no one has ever used Wolf scouts before, regardless of what type of army you are running, you don't know what you are missing.

Whirlwind or Vindicator? One has front AV 13 and a STR 10 AP 2 large blast and will act as a really good bullet magnet to allow your Long fangs to shoot and your grey hunters to advance with ease. The other will only mildly scare a low armour horde army and will either be ignored of blown up rather easily. That is sadly why we do not see the whirlwind much, which is a shame as I like the model and the name.
 

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I could see some use for the Lone Wolf if you are facing a Tyranid Horde. I would then equip him with a MotW and let him make a bee line for the closest gaunt squad. With FnP, 4 T and 3+ save he is very likely to win the combat against most medium sized units. This may force a part of the horde to halt for a moment. He could also be used to take care of non-CC-oriented infiltrators.
The Lone Wolf is very good for considering it's low cost,BUT it does eat up an Elite slot in the FoC and it often requires an empty transport to fully utilize its potential.
 

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I could see some use for the Lone Wolf if you are facing a Tyranid Horde. I would then equip him with a MotW and let him make a bee line for the closest gaunt squad. With FnP, 4 T and 3+ save he is very likely to win the combat against most medium sized units. This may force a part of the horde to halt for a moment. He could also be used to take care of non-CC-oriented infiltrators.
The Lone Wolf is very good for considering it's low cost,BUT it does eat up an Elite slot in the FoC and it often requires an empty transport to fully utilize its potential.
A unit of Gaunts? With a Tervigon watching their back they will hit you back with two attacks each (if they pass Ld10 test...) but also wound on a 4+. A 20 strong unit of Gaunts will force 10 saves on average, enough to wipe your Lone Wolf...
 

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I myself like running Lone Wolves though I do agree there are alot of other choices to pick I feel the Lone Wolf is up there with them.

Anyways when I do run them I run 3 (yeah yeah I know about the other choices) I then equip them with Terminator armour, Storm Shield and Thunder hammer running around 85pts which is dirt cheap considering how hard it is for many armies to kill them (and yes they will have to try and kill them because they can't ignore them either since they will wreck havoc on their army if they do ignore them this is even true in annihilation as well).

Usually I would footslog them up the board so they can draw fire from the rest of my army or if I really want to get them across the board I toss them in 1 of my Landraiders (usually running 3 as well).

Also they are cheap so if you have points floating around they are great for that as well.

Anyways thats my rant on that.

As for the other choices not much to say

Whirlwinds yeah are not as useful as I would like but they are a cheap anti-troop, though unreliable due to scatter (how I miss the 4th ed minefields sigh...)

Swiftclaws are just meh, crappy ws/bs (for marine that is) hurts them big time.
 

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I always kind of saw the lone wolf as a characterful addition versus a hardcore tactical unit. I think one that has been lost on the game is the characterful flare (see Orks 2nd Edition). I do see Ferik's point though how many times did you have a couple of extra points lying around to get something has good as a lone wolf is pretty impressive.

I never use Whirlwinds, my friend did way back in second edition but only for the reasons Ferik had for the lone wolf, extra points to throw around.
 

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A unit of Gaunts? With a Tervigon watching their back they will hit you back with two attacks each (if they pass Ld10 test...) but also wound on a 4+. A 20 strong unit of Gaunts will force 10 saves on average, enough to wipe your Lone Wolf...
Oh, im sorry, i wrote "gaunt" but i ment termagant (i actually thought that their name was "termagaunt" :p )

In the case of termagants i whould feel confident charging 20 of them with a Lone Wolf with MoTW.

Some math: :p

1d6 = (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6) / 6 = 3.5 on average
1d6 + 1 + 1 (for charging) = 5.5 attacks from the Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf damage: 5.5*(2/3)*(2/3)*(2/3) = 1.63
Termagant damage: 20*(1/2)*(1/3)*(1/3)*(1/2) = 0.55555

:)
 

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I think the Nid guy probably won't be too concerned if you kill 1.63 of his gaunts, of any description.

Lone wolves just seem like a hassle to me. They get near the price of a land speeder typhoon, which is my preferred choice for a cheap-ish unit and can worry MCs (and actually pretty much anything) from far, far away in a much less heroic and fluffy way.

Swift claws are pretty terrible when compared to thunderwolves and don't really do anything you can't do already with troops. Their good toughness is partly wasted because their bad WS means they will be hit more often and they are vulnerable to stuff like Lash because they are not in transports.

Whirlwinds suffer from being inflexible, unremarkable and largely-redundant in a space wolf army. All they are good for is killing enenmy infantry on foot, they aren't amazingly good at it, and you already have grey hunters. If your basic troops are good at something then you should take a lot of them for that job, and then take choices from other slots to do the things they aren't so good at. My grey hunters want somebody to blow up the other guy's transport vehicles.
 

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Oh, im sorry, i wrote "gaunt" but i ment termagant (i actually thought that their name was "termagaunt" :p )

In the case of termagants i whould feel confident charging 20 of them with a Lone Wolf with MoTW.

Some math: :p

1d6 = (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6) / 6 = 3.5 on average
1d6 + 1 + 1 (for charging) = 5.5 attacks from the Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf damage: 5.5*(2/3)*(2/3)*(2/3) = 1.63
Termagant damage: 20*(1/2)*(1/3)*(1/3)*(1/2) = 0.55555

:)
Actually, I was also talking about Termagants. Tervigons give them counter-attack, Ld10 and Poisoned Attacks 4+. So it would be 40*(1/2)*(1/2)*(1/3)*(1/2)=1.6666667

So more than the Lone Wolf :)
 

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Not to forget that a lone wolf or two is a huge liabillity in a kill point game.

"Is that your Lone Wolf over there? He's worth a kill point if he lives at the end of the game right? Okay, I'll shoot that instead then."
 

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That has actually never been a problem for me since I will usually throw it at the biggest meanest unit in my opponents army (MC/ high AR vehicle scary assault unit ect) and have a good chance of hurting, locking in combat up or even killing it so yeah go ahead and ignore him.

The LW I have found does work as a fire magnet but as I have mentioned before if you do ignore him he can do some serious damage, actually many people at my club groan when I field them since they all know from experiance that they can soak up a load of damage and if they are allowed to do so can dish it out too.

The only time this has backfire on me is if my opponent is using fast vehicles/ units then yes they can avoid the LW.

The only reason this works for me is that I don't go bare bones with them (in which they would have minimal survivability) I actually have Termie armour and Stormshield 2+ Armour 3+ Invul and 4+ FNP is pretty hard to bring down add a Thunderhammer and a serious threat to vehicles, MC and IC.

As for Annihlation its just 1 mission out of three and when hes racking up KP while hes been ignored all the better if he dies so what.

Anyways point being I don't feel that the ability of the LW giving a KP for staying alive is that big of a hinderance and the rest of his abilities far out weigh the negatives.
 

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I tend to agree that the KP thing shouldn't be an issue. It's fairly easy to get the guy killed - just charge him at something. If he kills it he gets you a KP, so it doesn't matter whether he wins or loses.

I don't use them because they don't suit my army, which tends to move faster than they do. I can certainly see a place for them in anything like a gunline army.
 

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Ancient Relic
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
if he doesnt die and is not engaged by turn 5, just move into dangerous terrain and then run, if he is in combat, just leave him. mine has a place when i amfighting the local smurf player who uses 3 dreadnoughts, i just chainfist them to pieces.
 
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