[Baron Spikey]

But not all on him. A ton, even to a marine, is like putting a 200 pound weight on a humans back, difficult maybe but not beyond most peoples ability, and primarchs are many times stronger than a marine. Hell, a building fell down around grimaldus(spelling?) and he managed to pull himself out.

Actually Grimaldus didn't pull himself out, he was rescued- plus he was trapped by the building in such a manner that he wasn't crushed, if the building had actually landed on him properly he'd be paste.

 

[Hellados]

ok first i'd like to sanguinius the leader of some proper nut nuts, i mean they really go nuts, not just angry like the we and sw they get sanctioned and everything! also the angel went toe to toe with the guy that nearly killed/killed the emperor, i mean yeah he died but he took a chunk out of him, also khorne did want him but failed cos sanguinius was loyal and khorne loved the BA specially when he saw them tear a planet and a ton of we when the we killed their captain or something

BUT lets base this on the fact that its two equal sized forces both already landed without support from allies

the sw have a tendency to use lots of heavy weapons, armour and bikes, we dont? so the we would get cut to bits at range then the puppies would cut into them and imho yes angron was a gladiator but russ speant his early years constantly fighting too.

i think it'd be hard graft but russ would kill him, angron adapting his style is one thing but i dont think russ would be that dumb as to see through that and what do you think russ would be doing while angron is analysing his technique apart from ripping him a new one

 

[DestroyerHive]

Chuck Norris.

Please don't negative rep me... :shout:

 

[gothik]

Hmmm. I always thought WEs was one of the scariest Legions, during the whole Terra battle it was the World Eaters (with Kharn) that made it furthest into the fortress of the Emperor. I figure they would have a vote or 2 base on pure feats of what that Legion has accomplish through strength alone.

Does anyone else think its funny how the WEs tatics leave them badly mauled but they manage to have a huge supply of warriors to throw at the next battle? Its like a never ending Recruitment. "Want to kill your boss? Angry at your parents? Like it better when a woman is on that time of the month? Then Angrons WEs are the legion for you!"

lmfao now thats a recruitment poster warlock lol nice one gonna give you rep for that:victory:

anyway not sure about who would win, both are savage legions and both have the feroicty and tenacity to never give in so i am gonna sit on the fence on that one.

one on one....i think chompy is right russ would laugh at it i guess and angron would take exception to it seeing as he really does not have a sense of humour per sae unless he is cutting someones spleen out to have with a fresh glass of cianti pfft pfft i think it would be a duel to the death, neither one would give way and would end up killing each other.

 

[kharn-the-betrayer]

1. This is hard to do but I have to say the space wolves.
2. Probably Angron

 

[XxDreMisterxX]

The Rage of the Zerkers is way beyond the comprehension of the SW and they dont even match any where close to them so stop saying they are just as "Furious or savage or Berserk". Well for one they havent had their hormonal rush elevated beyond the norm, nor have they had their Fear fully quenched, and they havent dedicated themselves to the most bloodthirsty and crazed of gods. SW still have a residue of human sympathy while WE have none. WE are known for alot of Assault specialists like Jump marines, Armoured Transports and Terminators. They are not lacking, and SW as i recall have their initiates as their assault units or blood claws. hmmm, initiates vs veteran assault marine? Who would win?

Now to analyse a Primarch vs Primarch battle, Russ vs Angron.

Comparison:

Russ Angron
Cunning Anger gives him strength
Fast Fast
Master Warrior Master Warrior
Intelligent Durable as hell

kinda busy at them moment so more to come...

 

[Angel of Blood]

Blind rage isn't going to win you a battle, by blindly zerging in like the WE will they can be led into traps and ambushes. And sure the Space Wolves initiates are thrown straight into the assaults from the word go, but that just means the rest of the Wolves past initate stage are already brilliant in close combat. And they ARE still savages in combat, have you seen the Wulfen? All SW's have that in them somewhere and can easily fly into a beserker rage like the WE.

As for Russ and Angron. I still think they will both die, but either way, people keep bringing up how 'durable' Angron is because he had a massive wall fall onto him. But we have no idea whether the other primarchs are just as capable of surviving such an event.

 

[XxDreMisterxX]

I'm not sure if lexicanum is a reputable source (though they do require a source in order to post information so it is in a way reputable)

Also NO SPACE WOLF is as berserk as a WE berserker. SW are not enhanced in anyway to make them so. If you think they are berserk then please make your argument plausible by providing some evidence instead of the usual boring statement with no backing like oh "Space Wolves are ferocious and there fierce and downright savages, but cunning also!" or "yeah, SW are just as berserk (<--- very bland, and not worth reading) and Wulfen are not considered SW for they become beasts instead having been consumed by their animalistic nature and a defect of the Fenrisian Helix (I think). Also dont Wulfen only show up in times of dire need? So SW would have to be losing pretty badly for them to come. (( Note: I thought this was pre-heresy legion discussion?))

It states in Lexi "The time of the Horus Heresy it is said that no other Primarch could have bested Angron in single combat save for Horus and perhaps Sanguinius."

Also to those who keep saying that Leman Russ beat the emperor he actually did not. He only won 2 of the 3 required challenges were he need to win all 3 in order to be victor. And the 2 he won are not even relevant to Russ's martial prowess as those 2 involved eating alot and drinking alot not fighting which he lost to the Emperor with a good ole power fist to the face (hmmm... fate seems to replay itself as the Lions powerfist did the same thing, haha) xD

 

[gen.ahab]

Lexi is about as good a source of credible info as my right butt cheek.

I suggest you read more because the moment you said the Wolfen didn't exist pre-heresy your entire post was simply writen of as BS.

My suggestion is the Ragnar books and A Thousand Sons.

 

[WinZip]

As Ahab said the Wulfen do exsist. Read the Space Wolf omnibus. also, SW have very hightend battle senses because of the fenrisian helix that is implated in them as part of their gene seed. Russ could win against Angron, because they are basically even (if the fight was pre heresy) afterward i say it could sway either way. Is there proof through fluff that angron took part in receiving the blood lust and frenzy of a 'Zerker?

 

[XxDreMisterxX]

Yes.. winzip.. he had gladitorial implants put in his brain if you read his fluff as do all zerkers because he spread the Lobo practice of psycho surgery on his legion.. and no its not like the Blood angels Blood rage at all, thats a geneseed defect.

The Fenrisian Helix does heighten their senses to a degree and does make them animalistic thus have the traits of beasts which includes natural savagery (which mankind has proven that human savagery beats natural savagery in destructive potential) but does not facilitate an increase in emotions or any significant difference in the biological function of emotions.

and Gen When i ment wulfen didnt existing i ment Pre-heresy but as you say its in Thousand Sons which i havent read yet. and BTW Ragnar is after the Horus Heresy.

I stand corrected on the Wulfen ( thou not by much) but the rest of my post still stands.

Also to give evidence to WE not being just angry maniacs here's some supporting info on Anger:

"When anger occurs, the body goes instantly into a series of mind-body reactions involving hormones, the nervous system and the muscles. This involves a release of adrenaline which results in shortness of breath, skin flushing, muscle rigidity, and tightening in the jaw, stomach, shoulder and hands. Our thoughts can become fragmented and our eyes may dart from object to object. We become agitated and may even tremble. Our first impulse may be to take action which could turn out to be destructive.
Think of anger as a tool for survival. When we perceive a threat, we experience a fight or flight response.
That is, we will either struggle to avert the threat or we will flee the situation. Either response can be adaptive, depending on the circumstances. Anger is a tool that, when used effectively, can motivate us to solve problems and confront threats in a sensible manner. responses to anger differ greatly as well. Some people are able to experience angry feelings and use them as a way of solving problems rationally and effectively. Others turn their anger inward and engage in self-destructive behavior. Other people strike out when they feel angry. And some refuse to acknowledge their anger – or they confuse anger with other emotions such as vulnerability or fear." - Rita Lehmann, article on Anger- managing a powerful emotion.

 

[gen.ahab]

Who typically goes berserk.... As do some other wolves. And the existed since the the first wolves were implanted with the canis helix and they don't have anything to do with the warp. Also, the Wolfen is a defect.

 

[WinZip]

Ok well now i know . But Wulfen did exsist prehersy. in the SW omnibus it talks about how the first wulfen was made. Wulfen (thats the characters real name) was a powerful man that Russ wanted to be in his Legion when he started taking men from fenris. every man had to drink from a cup that was to be an SW. When Wulfen drank from the cup, the evil inside him took over and he became a wulfen, half man half beast. From that day forward, every space wolf aspirant has to drink from the Cup of Wulfen to see if they have any evil in them.

 

[Angel of Blood]

The curse of the Wulfen can manifest at any point in a Space Wolfs life though. And when regular SW's go into a beserk rage due to their animalistic instincts, they are angry would you believe it. Human savagery doesn't nessacarily beat animal savagery like a wolf at all.

The Wulfen have existed since the inception of the Legion, a whole company of them were unleashed upon Prospero and they surrounded Russ alot of the time

 

[XxDreMisterxX]

Beast Savagery is a different category from human savagery as there is no emotional influence and more instinctive in nature for animals. When wolves go berserk they are aggressive and dangerous but they do not feel anything when they are and is more an innate response to a threat not a over escalation of adrenaline and anger like humans experience. and yes AoB, i agree that they would be angry when in a berserk state due to being human.

P.S- When someone can prove that animals do have emotions please inform the scientific community of this for it would be a Scientific breakthrough they have been looking for.

and yes i'm aware of that winzip because in the SW omnibus Ragnar constantly has to keep his inner demon in check and he even fought a wulfen, though in the SW omnibus Wulfen are insane psychotic animals with some humanity but overiden by the Dominating animalistic nature they possess so they have little to no human thoughts or ability to think because all thoughts and cognitive functions are drowned by there animalistic fury and rage. The accounts of the Wulfen are contradicting when comparing SW omnibus and Thousands Sons book. The Wulfen i would say are the closest SW can get to WE berserk state and Blood Angels blood rage is also another state just as bad, but both Wulfen and Blood rage have a major downside in the fact that they cant think properly and lose themselves in that state.

 

[Angel of Blood]

WE lose themselves just as much though. Whether animals have emotions or not is neither here nor there as the SW do have emotions and they are still going to retain these when going beserk as they are still astartes. And even then i would argue that going beserk without emotion would be even more dangerous, with no emotional control to hold you back, nothing on your mind except killing your target, everything given over to the one action with nothing else to cloud your mind. It's a pure focused, unrelenting, uncomprimising drive to kill. Again i would say this is much mroe dangerous.

Put the angriest person in the world who is in a complete rage, put him against almost any apex predator which wants to kill him/her and they are going to die. Your not going to beat a grizzly or polar bear, a lion, tiger, crocodile, hippo(yes hippo!) elephant etc etc no matter how angry your are or how much of a savage. Almost every single time, the animal is going to come out on top.

 

[Abomination]

Leman Russ beat's all in a contest 1 on 1. His strength is supreme (provided he isn't distracted by fair fenrisian maidens or intoxicated on our fine ale).

As for a planetary invasion legion vs legion, it would depend on many factors and be too close to call. But I feel the Space Wolves would have the edge. (of course if I was Russ's second in command it would be an easy win :grin

 

[XxDreMisterxX]

AoB, when is anger considered a emotional control? thats weak seeing as anger has nothing to do with control. Many have tried to control their anger, but if it is strong enough it will make you a mad beast and when those who have fully succumbed to their anger and accepted then they are truly a monster.

Emotion provides a incentive, a cold killer feels nothing and his motivation is based on what he needs or wants to do. A angry berserk is much more terrifying because he would be highly dangerous and violent.

Haha, give a Angry madman a sharp object and watch as shit hits the fan and he will kill anything no matter what it is. Anger with the strength to use that anger is a potentially destructive combination. A midget who is angry wont be able to do much, The Hulk when he is angry is Destruction incarnate!

 

[gen.ahab]

AoB, when is anger considered a emotional control? thats weak seeing as anger has nothing to do with control. Many have tried to control their anger, but if it is strong enough it will make you a mad beast and when those who have fully succumbed to their anger and accepted then they are truly a monster.

This is just melodramatic crap. Doesn't really tell me jack shit..... actually it might hurt your argument.

Emotion provides a incentive, a cold killer feels nothing and his motivation is based on what he needs or wants to do. A angry berserk is much more terrifying because he would be highly dangerous and violent.

Emotion blinds and dulls the mind. The wolves are the embodiment of cold hatred. They behave like wolves. They will do anything to get the kill, but they won't charge blindly down the guts to get it. They will maneuver around and strike at the throat. WE have all the keen tactical subtly of beached whale

give a Angry madman a sharp object and watch as shit hits the fan and he will kill anything no matter what it is. Anger with the strength to use that anger is a potentially destructive combination. A midget who is angry wont be able to do much, The Hulk when he is angry is Destruction incarnate!

An angry man is an idiot. Russ is a cold, calculating butcher that will find your weak point and exploit it.

 

[Chompy Bits]

One thing though, I think in a legion vs legion fight the WE will be a lot more free to go ape shit. Reading the SW books it makes it seem that the wulfen thing is a constant struggle for any wolf and that they always have to practive a degree of restraint in their actions. The WE are lobotomised hooligans and have no concerns of such a nature. They can afford to fully give in to their rage without the fear of turning into a hairy beast. I still think the Wolves would win though.