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Discussion Starter #1
Something silly that I was playing with in my head.

Primary Detachment - Dark Angels

Belial w/ Sword

DW Terminators
TH/SS + Cyclone

DW Terminators
TH/SS + Cyclone

DW Terminators
TH/SS + Cyclone

Dreadnought
x2 TLAC

Dreadnought
x2 TLAC

Contemptor Dreadnought
x2 TLAC, Typhoon Launcher

Allied Detachment - Space Marines

Tyberos the Red Wake

Assault Terminators
x5 LC

Stormraven Gunship
TLLas, MM, Hurrisponsons

-2000 pts
 

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The DW are 5 man units?

It would be a fun list is you make your saves. I never seem to do well with my termy saves.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yeah, all DW Terminator squads are 5mans, you can't add to them. So each squad is 3 Fist/SB, 1 TH/SS/Cyclone, and a Sgt with Sword/SB.

And yes, this means the army is 20 scoring Termies.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The way I see it, the three Deathwing Squads can DW Assault in on first turn, and those missiles and Storm Bolters get to twin link and soft up targets. I may even drop one of the Shield/Cyclones and run an Assault Cannon just to do more damage on that first turn barrage, but I like the extra Invul, and not giving up firepower. After that the Raven gets to come in and drop the Clawinators into a squad later on that needs more beatdown.

Only downside is that the Dreadnoughts need to basically hold the field to start.

Actually, now that I think about it, I might need to start the Raven in Hover mode nestled in a corner because they need half the units on the board....
 

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Nice way of getting around not being able to switch out your PS/SB on the sergeant for the 5 LC squad.

I'd say that the AC provides more range synergy than the CML, but with split fire what does it matter?

As for flier defense, at 2k one SR just won't cut it against anyone with two or more fliers. Am I to presume your TLAC dreads are Mortis pattern with Skyfire? Otherwise I would advise against relying on Twin-Linked to put down fliers....not that there's much for you to worry about aside from rolling 1's for armour saves.

EDIT: as a flier the Raven can NOT start on the board. It can enter via reserves in hover mode though. It doesn't count toward your limit though, and I'm pretty sure units embarked don't either.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If I turn any of the Cyclone Hamminators into an Assault Cannon, then I get the 10 points I need to turn the two Dreadnoughts into Mortis. Right now, they're NOT Mortis because of the cost points cost.

If the Raven doesn't count towards the reserves limit, then I'm fine. either way the only thing that will start would be the three 'noughts, so basically I need them to be able to survive if I don't go first.

@ntaw: I'm not sure what you mean about getting around anything... Tyberos has always been there since the IA came out, and Assault Terminators are part of Vanilla marines. It actually works out better this way, because the more I think about it, the more of a waste fully LC'ing a DW squad is because of the Alpha strike. That's actually why I didn't bother with a squad of Knights.
 

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If I turn any of the Cyclone Hamminators into an Assault Cannon, then I get the 10 points I need to turn the two Dreadnoughts into Mortis. Right now, they're NOT Mortis because of the cost points cost.
Then it's a good idea.

@ntaw: I'm not sure what you mean about getting around anything... Tyberos has always been there since the IA came out, and Assault Terminators are part of Vanilla marines. It actually works out better this way, because the more I think about it, the more of a waste fully LC'ing a DW squad is because of the Alpha strike. That's actually why I didn't bother with a squad of Knights.
Dark Angels FAQ states that DW sergeants can't replace their wargear for anything. Changed the wording to: any model can exchange their power fist and storm bolter for TH/SS or TLC

It means you have to ally in a squad of Terminators in order to not have one SB and PS in the unit as DW sergeants don't have the ability to swap weapons.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oh yeah, I'm well aware of the change to the Sergeants. I just meant that I wasn't using that squad to 'get away' with anything, The whole Tyberos + Squad + Raven allied detachment was a suggestion I had seen months ago, and just liked the idea of.

I'll probably downgrade one, most likely Belial's squad to the Assault Cannon, and upgrade the two Dreadnoughts to Mortis, giving me 3 Skyfire units with Autocannons.

The other option I can do with this army is using GK as my ally, and Mordrak's First to the Fray with his Ghost Knights.
 

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I just meant that I wasn't using that squad to 'get away' with anything
I meant it's a good way to maintain a CC dedicated squad of Terminators. Get around is what I said, as it is a bit of a bitch that Sergeants are stuck with the PS/SB combo.

The addition of the Mortis dreads is huge. Specially if it's so few points!
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Dropping a single TH/SS and one Cyclone, and throwing in an Assault Cannon into belial's squad is worth exactly 10 points, which gets me the Mortis version of both Dreadnought, and the Contemptor already has the same. Therefore, I have 3 walkers able to Skyfire 2 TL Autocannons.

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Belial w/ Sword

DW Terminators (squad with Belial)
Assault Cannon

DW Terminators
TH/SS + Cyclone

DW Terminators
TH/SS + Cyclone

Mortis Dreadnought
x2 TLAC

Mortis Dreadnought
x2 TLAC

Contemptor Dreadnought
x2 TLAC, Typhoon Launcher

Allied Detachment - Space Marines

Tyberos the Red Wake

Assault Terminators
x5 LC

Stormraven Gunship
TLLas, MM, Hurrisponsons

-2000 pts
 

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Nice list bro...I played Deathwing-Ravenwing with Blood Angels allies for the first time the other day, and found them incredibly fun and surprisingly easy to use.

I do have a question regarding reserves though, as there seems to be a lot of confusion about what counts towards the 50% reserve limit and what does not...And it's messing with my list building recently.

So, if you take a Storm Raven and load it with a HQ choice (say a Reclusiarch) and another squad (say a Death Company squad), do all these units then become disregarded for working out the 50% limit?

Also, do Deathwing arriving from DW assault count towards the limit? I have heard they do indeed count and GW have FAQ'd it to say this. Which would suck balls, because it rules out those pure deathwing assault lists...However, if they don't, would Belial as a HQ be disregarded if attached to a DW squad?

I know Drop Pods and the units they drop are disregarded, just don't know about the above...
 

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So, if you take a Storm Raven and load it with a HQ choice (say a Reclusiarch) and another squad (say a Death Company squad), do all these units then become disregarded for working out the 50% limit?
The only thing I find in the BRB about this is that Dedicated Transports and their units count as one, and everything else counts for itself. Since the SR is not a DT but a Heavy Support option, I can only surmise that the units inside do indeed count towards the 50% limit while the flier (being forced to start in reserve) does not count. This is why Drop Pods and their embarked units do not count, as the DP must start in reserve and it's a Dedicated Transport.

Also, do Deathwing arriving from DW assault count towards the limit?
Yes. By using the same internet that took you here, you can check out the DA FAQ on the GW website. Alternately, here is the link. It's a special version of the web designed for simplicity of use.

As an HQ, Belial counts as his own unit and thus does indeed count towards the 50% limit.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
A drop pod does not count because drop pods are DEDICATED transports. a Dedicated Transport is considered the same unit as its parent squad. A Stormraven, however, is not a dedicated transport. Also, Independent Characters are their own units, even if they're inside of another unit. All per pg 124 of the BRB.

In the above list, this means that belial, the Raven, the three DW squads, Tyberos, his LC Terminators... it's way too many squads.
 

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Looks like you have to choose which 4 units get to be held in reserve. Tough choice. Tyberos and his LC squad and Belial and his squad would be my guess.

I wonder if there's anything in the FAQ's that state the units held in a SR are indeed counted towards the unit cap...

EDIT: nope.
 

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The only thing I find in the BRB about this is that Dedicated Transports and their units count as one, and everything else counts for itself. Since the SR is not a DT but a Heavy Support option, I can only surmise that the units inside do indeed count towards the 50% limit while the flier (being forced to start in reserve) does not count. This is why Drop Pods and their embarked units do not count, as the DP must start in reserve and it's a Dedicated Transport.



Yes. By using the same internet that took you here, you can check out the DA FAQ on the GW website. Alternately, here is the link. It's a special version of the web designed for simplicity of use.

As an HQ, Belial counts as his own unit and thus does indeed count towards the 50% limit.
Thanks yeah, I couldn't really be bothered finding it after 12 hour shifts at work the past few days and having to spend all night in the hospital last night...So that saves me the effort.
 

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In the above list, this means that belial, the Raven, the three DW squads, Tyberos, his LC Terminators... it's way too many squads.
Sucks, doesn't it?

Especially with BA's and Deathwing, as it's destroyed a lot of their character.

That said, you can always load up on cheap scout squads to make sure you adhere to the 50% rule and still play the deep striking style. Scouts with camo cloaks in ruins or behind an aegis are pretty okay scoring units anyway...Just an idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Honestly what this means is that you cant Alpha Strike the whole thing. You cant even realistically run EVERYTHING that you might want to in reserve.

3 Dreadnoughts, 1 Stormraven, Tyberos, Belial, 3 DW, and 1 Assault squad... 10 squads.

Therefore, you can only have 5. The best you could hope for is to run the 3 DW squads and belial (because they get bonuses for their deep strikes), and you have to run the Stormraven in reserve. Tyb and his Brethren have to start on the board, jump into the raven, and be pushed forward.

Alternatively, dropping and adding, say, some Ravenwing, would allow more Deep Striking units. Or, as I mentioned earlier, running Mordrak with his squad, that's only a single unit, and he could come down first turn also.
 

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3 Dreadnoughts, 1 Stormraven, Tyberos, Belial, 3 DW, and 1 Assault squad... 10 squads.
:headbutt: The damn SR is not counted towards the limit as it must start the game in reserve. Read the rules you're quoting, or at least the comments left here.

as a flier the Raven can NOT start on the board. It can enter via reserves in hover mode though. It doesn't count toward your limit though
If the Raven doesn't count towards the reserves limit, then I'm fine.
All per pg 124 of the BRB.
Second sentence, "preparing reserves"

Units that start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of figuring out how many other units may do so.

Friggin' reading man.
 
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