Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was playing a game a few days ago during the course of wich a unit of Necrons was charged by hormogaunts. The Necrons took 1 casualty and lost the combat. They failed their leadership test and fell back 2. The gaunts sweeping advanced and killed them. The opponent refussed to accept this and came out with sweeping advances cant be used unless your in base contact but since your foe has already fallen back out of base contact this makes sweeping advances impossible. I just want to find out how that should have played out and what the correct rules are. Personaly I reckon he was making excuses.
 

·
Inquisitor
Joined
·
963 Posts
Its pretty clear on page 43 second paragraph of the Sweeping Advances and Consolidation section that

"If the falling back unit no longer has any models in base contact with the victor, or if the victor has models still engaged in combat with other units which are not falling back, the victors do not get a chance to sweeping advance, but may still consolidate."

Sorry but if that single necron was the only one in B2B contact and he removed it then by the big rule book the hormogaunts are not allowed to sweeping advance through them.

By the way for sweeping advance once you fail your leadership you roll/compare initiatives not roll for how far you fall back. That was 3rd Edition when you rolled distance and if they caught you you were wiped. Though with the Necrons low Init its still very likely the gaunts would have caught them. If by some miracle the Necrons defeat the Gaunts initiative roll THEN you roll for fall back distance.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,988 Posts
Bishop is right, kind of. That won't usually happen when a unit of hormies charges necron warriors and one casualty is taken off tho. There are probably a lot of models in contact.

What you did wrong was to fall back. That isn't what you do. If a guy loses combat and fails his morale check then you do a kind of initiative check with each player rolling a dice and adding the initiative of their guys. If the "chasing" guy gets equal to or more than the falling back guy, the falling back unit is killed.

Note that this has nothing to do with how far models actually move. The initiative roll is only to see IF they move.

Basically do the stuff on page 43 in order going down the page. Determine results, loser checks morale, sweeping advances and consolidation. You inserted the fall back move in the wrong place, which is where you went wrong.
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
While Bish is correct, I think Someguy is onto something.

It looks like your opponent fell back *before* resolving the initiative check (and thus moving his models out of B2B and unfairly denying you a sweeping advance)

The proper way is morale check, then initiative check, THEN fall back and consolidation moves if anyone survives.

If you had models in B2B when his unit broke then you should have been allowed a sweeping advance initiative check before his fallback move.

I would recommend taking your BBB and smacking him upside the head with it until he learns the rules by osmosis...or stops moving. Whichever comes first.
 

·
Inquisitor
Joined
·
963 Posts
Yeah thats what I was saying with my last paragraph.... it sounded like they mixed up the sweeping advance 4th edition with 3rd edition versions.. Need clarification and how exactly yall played that out..
 

·
Grey Knight Converter
Joined
·
2,169 Posts
The way your opponent resolved combat was wrong as the above stated. However, removing models to deny your opponent a sweeping advance is a great and sneaky tactic. Since they can only consolidate it usually leaves them out in the open. I do that with my inquisitor squad if they ever get charged with some big creature and lose combat. Remove models in btb, fail my leadership run away and shoot it with plasma cannons and heavy bolters next turn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks i knew something was wrong but you guys helped me find it. We missed the inatiative test so well fell back first this rendered sweeping advance impossible.
 

·
Executive Nitpicker
Joined
·
8,276 Posts
If you think it was a mutual understanding, i;d suggest going over the relevant section of the book with him.

however, if you suspect he was screwing around with the rules on purpose, I suggest going upside his head with the relevant section of the book ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I Think he just couldent face failing leadership 10 then running 2 then the gaunts passing leadership 5. I would have been pissed to but i would not have hunted for a way to disprove it
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,988 Posts
I Think he just couldent face failing leadership 10 then running 2 then the gaunts passing leadership 5. I would have been pissed to but i would not have hunted for a way to disprove it
Why did the gaunts have to take a leadership test?

Why did he even roll to see how far he ran?

To be honest it looks to me like there is some real confusion about how to use these rules here. My suggestion is to start all over again, read all the assault and morale rules, and play future games using actual rules, rather than whatever system you have been using. Frankly, if you are so far off the rules in this area (and you really are miles away) then you might want to go back to your rulebook and read from the start again.

Actually if necron warriors fail their leadership test and run from gaunts then they are very likely to be caught and wiped out, since the gaunts have a significantly better initiative stat. Under the actual rules you would be expected to lose a necron unit in this situation and would have no grounds for being "stubborn" about it. It would be annoying to fail the LD check of course, but that just happens sometimes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
ok. that was something I myself was unclear on. I assumed you tested for sweeping advance before doing fallback, but it sounds like you do it after.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
1) Start Assault Phase

2) Figure out results of Assault, lose/draw

3)If its a draw consolidate troops together

4) If there is a Loser thats not fearless, take a morale check. If he passes consolidate as normal.

5) If the loser fails the Morale Check, each player rolls a D6 and add Int values. If the winner of the asssault score is equal to or greater then loser he is destroyed.

OR if no Models are in B2B see 6

6) If there are no units in B2B and the loser fails his Morale check then he gets away from combat. However if they are caught by the enemy consolidation move they must immediatly take a LD test to see if they regroup. If they fail this test they are destroyed.

I hope thats all right and clears things up, I'm at work going off of memory.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
280 Posts
Default
1) Start Assault Phase

2) Figure out results of Assault, lose/draw

3)If its a draw consolidate troops together

4) If there is a Loser thats not fearless, take a morale check. If he passes consolidate as normal.

5) If the loser fails the Morale Check, each player rolls a D6 and add Int values. If the winner of the asssault score is equal to or greater then loser he is destroyed.
Step 5 doesn't happen if there are no models left in b2b (i.e. all engaged models were killed, or owning player was careful to remove casulties to get his men out of b2b to avoid a potential massacre move)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
784 Posts
Step 5 doesn't happen if there are no models left in b2b (i.e. all engaged models were killed, or owning player was careful to remove casulties to get his men out of b2b to avoid a potential massacre move)
Thanks, I should have been more clear, I edited the post, now its clear as MUD!!! :eek:k:
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top