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Discussion Starter #1
Wanna get the community's take on this. I'm trying to decide on taking either a 6 man Sternguard squad or a 6 man Tac squad. The Stern are 69 points more than the Tacs after the load out and transport, but can bring more firepower, more attacks for CC (if need be) and have better leadership. The question is, is the additional firepower, more attacks and better CC worth the almost 70 point differential for a 1,750 list? Please review and advise.

6 man Sternguard = 285
Sgt. - Melta Bombs
5 combi-meltas
1 heavy flamer
Razorback w/Dozer Blade and TLPG and Las Cannon

6 man Tac = 216
Sgt. - Combi-flamer and Melta Bombs
Razorback w/Dozer Blade and TLPG and Las Cannon

Thanks in advance.
 

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Spanner in the works...
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It entirely depends. It would be good to know what the rest of the list looks like in context with this, as to whether you need another Troops choice or more firepower.
As a general rule, if you already have 4 Troops at this points level then I would opt for the Sternguard because they're one of the most effective units in the codex for their points. Moreover, I'm not a big fan of <10 man Tactical Squads for vanilla Space Marines simply because they don't have access to the special weapon. If you want 5 man Squads then take a full 10 man and then combat squad, so you don't sacrifice effectiveness.

Also, I think the setup of the Tactical Squad conflicts with its transport. A Las/plas Razorback wants sit further back, rather than getting right up in your opponent's face, as the Combi-flamer and Meltabombs would suggest. On the other hand this would also apply to the Sternguard, though I feel it suits the Sternguard better as they can disembark and shoot at range with the Razorback with Special Ammunition. Finally, I'm not sure why you would take the 6th model in the Tactical squad - in the Sternguard it makes sense as you have an extra Combi-weapon, but in the Tactical you're only getting an extra Bolter. It's not like a Devastator squad where the ablative wound is nice to prevent you from losing Heavy Weapons - the Sergeant gets LOS saves, so doesn't need the extra models.

So on the whole I'd say the Sternguard are the better option (you can always lose the 6th model if you want to save points), but if your list is short on Troops then the latter might provide a better tactical option.
 

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I play 5 man Tactical sqauds in TLHB Razorbacks with no upgrades and they work very well for me. That being said, Razorbacks generally work well for any BA player. They blow up a bit too easy for me to justify spending 35 points on a turret for them. Unless you're playing an army that is heavily mechanized those Melta Bombs are doing nothing but eat 5 points, and making him effective against armour but giving him a combi-flamer...jack of all trades master of none?

I agree with Spanner in that without the rest of the list it's hard to say which is better, and that 10 man squads are better for vanilla marines than 5 man RB squads. I wouldn't do it myself if the RB's weren't fast for BA.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Great points to both of you (Spanner and ntaw). Thank you both. I'm still trying to decide how my army should look like. This list will be for a tourney I've signed up for on the 29th at the Chicago Battle Bunker. I play BA, (though it's a created chapter with my own color scheme) and would like to get into CC right away, (or as soon as possible) hit hard, capture whatever objectives are on the board and then move on. I was originally thinking of 4 ASM squads in TLPG w/LC Razors, (ntaw, I believe we've discussed this in the past). The Razors can provide some sort of protection to the ASMs as they move up as well as deal with enemy armour at range. You're right that Razors can be popped rather easily, but with smoke, cover, speed and some luck they might survive a turn or 2. I love ASM squads with JPs and using DOA, but this really leaves them exposed to all sorts of template weapons so not sure if that's the direction I want to go.

This is what the list might include.

HQ - Reclusiarch (?)
Elite #1 - 2 x Priests w/PWs
Elite #2 - Chappy (?) w/JP
Elite #3 - Chappy (?) w/JP
Troops #1 - 10 x ASM squad w/Sgt's PW and 2 flamers
Troops #2 - 10 x ASM squad w/Sgt's PW and 2 flamers
Troops #3 - 11 DC unit w/2 PWs
Troops #4 - DC Dread w/Blood Talons
Heavy - Stormraven

Again, not married to anything here so all thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 

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Two Chaplains as well as a Reclusiarch??? Well then. Personally I think that you could spend that 250 points in a lot better ways, specially since the Chaplain's bonus only applies on the charge. The Priests are enough, though they will need jump packs to keep up.

I'd drop the DC dread for a Furioso. AV13 means near invincibility in CC against most troop choices, save for sweet upgrades...but then they will likely be attacking last and thus blended into chunks while they're still trying to swing their power fists.

5 man Tactical squads in HB Razorbacks are 150 points. You'll likely need two of them if you want to have actual cover going on, so there's 300 points you've almost achieved by dropping the Chaplains.

As far as the DC go, they run squads still. My beef with this is your delivery system, which I can only assume is the SR. Someone bringing an ADL will ruin your day, my friend; just as my ADL ruins the days of the two Heldrakes that I always face. No troops without ++ saves survive being blown out of the sky without massively lucky dice, and you only have the one flier to shoot at. Personally I've begun putting them in Land Raiders or not using them, opting instead for Assault Terminators in a SR (that 3++ from the SS is key to my comfort with this).

You have a startling lack of anti armour with the exception of your SR, and even that depends on how you arm it. I was blown away by my dice rioted against odds yesterday and my TLLC/TLMM SR failed to cause even a single glance for two games. Two. Whole. Games.

Fucking dice man. Prepare for that shit. If someone runs a LR and blows up your SR before you blow up their LR you have nothing else that can harm AV14.

What points level are you working at here, 2k?


EDIT: just to bring this back to the thread, if you have leftover points for this list and you're working out whether to take Sternguard or Tacticals: you need the anti armour more than the 5 scoring troops.
 
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