[mahavira]

Just reading the newest WD, and there is reference to a step forward rule that allows models that step forward to replace the fallen to attack. Is this something everyone can do? If so, are units like witch elves even remotely useful anymore?

 

[Sethis]

Eh, what do you mean? You have always been able to "step forward" assuming that by that you mean one of the two following:

- Your Musician and/or Standard Bearer dies, in which case another member of the unit steps foward to pick them up and keep going (represented by never taking off a command model until the entire rest of the unit has died).

- You take casualties from combat/shooting that should remove models from the front rank, but other models are assumed to step forward, so you remove casualties from the back instead.

Or is there a new meaning to the term that I've missed?

 

[Schizofen]

I think it means the rule where casualties are now taken from the back rather than the front of the unit. So if one unit goes first and wipes out the front rank, models from the rear ranks "step forward" and can fight back that turn.

 

[Dave T Hobbit]

You just need enough punch to wipe out all the fighting ranks before they can strike.

As I understand it the first two ranks can now fight (plus extra for being in Horde, having spears, or being pointy-eared munchkins), so if you kill 10 models before they strike you stop them striking.

Not certain how specifically this affects Witch Elves; do they usually fail to kill more than the one rank?

 

[Sethis]

Well the "Step Forward" rule is the same as it's always been, no? The only difference is that now every unit gets to fight in 2 ranks instead of 1. All that means for Witch Elves is that they are going to suffer like 5 attacks back instead of none (and not even that if you hit them in the flank). Hardly makes them useless...

 

[mahavira]

Ah, I see. The way they'd talked about it in the WD (at least regarding some models) sounded like the guys stepping foreward got their full number of attacks so wiping out 5-10 models had no impact on how many attacks came back.

 

[Dave T Hobbit]

Ah, I see. The way they'd talked about it in the WD (at least regarding some models) sounded like the guys stepping foreward got their full number of attacks so wiping out 5-10 models had no impact on how many attacks came back.

I believe that models not in the front rank at the start of the combat are limited to one attack however many they have from profile and weapons, so those that step forward get one attack and reduce the attacks from the final fighting rank (as the model that steps forward could not fight at the beginning of combat).

 

[Sethis]

Nope, he's right.

Unless you kill enough so that it removes models from the front and second rank, they will all get to fight.

This badly neuters things like Witch Elves, which basically depended on killing the front rank(s) in order to not get hit back, because T3 with no save is not a good way to survive being attacked. They're still very nice because they kill a lot of models, but they're going to take casualties back, and that's not a good thing.

 

[mahavira]

Now I guess the question is how to improve survivability. Having a death hag/battle standard bearer join the unit with the hydra banner (more killing) or dread banner (chance of fear reducine WS to 1), but that's quite expensive and possibly more useful elsewhere (Cold One Knights with Hydra Banner for example means one heck of a painful lance charge). Rune of Khaine adds d3 attacks to your hag or death hag, war cry can reduce enemy WS by 1, which should pull the enemy down to only hitting on a 4, and mean that against most enemies the WE hit on a 3, increasing wound output (especially with hatred in the first round). Banner of murder gives armor piercing, and doesn't require the battle standard bearer be in the unit.

Ah well, can't really complain: the new 'always fight in initiative order even when charging/charged' is a huge bonus to I6 WE.

 

[karlhunt]

Actually all models are removed from the back. that means that a 5x4 unit of infantry x takes 10 casualties from witch elves and the ten remaining will still fight as ranks 1 and 2. rank 1 getting it's full complement of attacks and rank 2 getting a single attack per model. There is no more "I killed your front rank so you can't hit me."

 

[Durzod]

I believe step forward doesn't apply to flank/rear combats, so that should improve the witches' survivability. Units can reform on their turn to face flankers unless engaged on two or more sides, so you'll be best served by hitting a unit from the front with something armored and then flank with witches.

 

[Barnster]

which is why zombies are now completely useless when bought with points, super low WS super low I, no save. = useless

Witch elves at least can rely on their high number of attacks at high I and WS, they can still dish out pain

 

[karlhunt]

Blasphemy! Zombies are awesome in 8th. They are cheap enough to bring in massive tarpits as before and are even harder to get the disruption on. Perfect for holding the enmy down while you bring the Grave Guard around to finish the enemy off.