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Steam tanks are just broken, in my opinion, and I mean that in every sense of the word. They're not only so powerful that they're broken, they're also in many circumstances so easy to destroy, it's broken.

Almost nothing will normally hurt a steam tank. You need a 6 to wound and a 1 for their armor save. That means you need to inflict 36 hits to normally cause 1 wound (unless the strength of the attack is 5 or greater). You can only fit 4 infantry models in base contact with it normally, so you get 8 models attacking it, usually resulting in 8 hits. At that rate, you'll need 4-5 turns in order to inflict a single wound. If it's a horde or if they have spears you'll inflict a single wound in 3. A horde with spears might do it in 2, but it's still only a single wound. Obviously, this won't work very well, beyond simply tying it up so it can't move, at the expense of your block of troops.

On the other hand, enemy cannons, poisoned shooting attacks, and many magic spells will simply erase the steam tank in a single turn. All things considered, I don't think it's a good unit for the game. It's an all or nothing 300 point bet that your opponent can't deal with it. If you're wrong, then you're out 300 points. If you're right, then you won't exactly make any friends.
 

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If you don't roll to hit, you can't poison the enemy.
Well yes, thats certainly true... but not really the question that I asked.

You must roll 'to hit' dice in order to get a poison hit... but I can't see anywhere where the rulebook says that hitting automatically means you dont roll the dice. Sure there is no point to do so as all results from 1-6 hit, and therefore we skip the useless roles... but with poison it does matter and I cannot see any reason why they dont get the roll anyway. Its like the old re-roll success and failed dice... technically you have to roll the dice, pick them all up and roll them again, we usually just skip the first round because it has no effect.

I know this might sound like a stretch... but that's just bias kicking in. There is no fluff reason why having an opponent (thats vulnerable to poison) not dodging your attacks would mean that they dont get poisoned... and as far as I can see there is no rulebook reason either (other then history).
I would also point out that since I play armies that have no WS0 and no poisoned attacks I am about as neutral as it gets...
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
So Im wondering if you would roll the 'to hit' dice, with them all automatically passing but with 6s being poisoned. Opinions?
That sounds like a good (if not RAW) solution.
 

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As mentioned before, you could look into allied armies.

In my local GW, there's an empire player that uses the steam tank in EVERY army, sometimes double tanks.
Reading into these mammoth threats for beastmen, (no warmachines, etc) I was thinking of ways to counter it.
Many people have mentioned essentially 'tar pitting' it. Costly and could ultimately fail, seeing that it's plowed through 2 units of warriors.

Beastmen armies have acess to the following item.
stone crusher mace: gives +3 to wielders str, and versus chariots/ warmachines (specifically notes STEAMTANKS/ altars/ corpse carts) it is 10 str.​
it is expensive, but on a lord specifically meant to fight an empire unit, this is quite handy. With primal fury, this could knock off boatloads of wounds to render the steamtank inoperable.

Not sure if it helps your situation, but that's the only real counter that I have in my branch of the Chaos armies.
 

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My usual solution to the Stank problem is a 85 point hero choice. Necromancer (Raise Dead & Vanhels) with the Sceptre de Noirot. Raise a unit of d6+9 zombies within 8" of the tank, charge, repeat in the next magic phase and proceed to tarpit the damn thing for the entire game.

If I'm playing my dwarves its slayer bait (gotta love the Slayer rule). I always field a couple of naked Dragonslayers to deal with precisely this kind of problem.

My HE have the hardest time against it, because my all-comers lore selection (fire & high) don't really have anything that can deal with it. Having said that, I find a sun dragon to the face often offends.
 

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bloodcurdling roar should do well, especially on a disc with a 4++ standard (3++ with MoT) since you will be getting close and will likely be getting a cannon to the head. Im actually kinda jealous.. its better then by ogre counter :p

VC dont need to worry about stanks, they can just tarpit it. Zombies are the best anti-stank unit in the game simply becaus ethey are so cheap (or free). A stank will usually kill pretty much the same number of enemies no matter what its fighting... so a ~20pt WOC, 15pt elf or 0pt zombie will all die equally easily... but the zombies lose you nothing. Hell the only thing comparable to zombies would be skaven slaves or gnoblars... but either way they need a general and probably a bsb close by.. while zombies just dont care.
 

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How do they do versus Toughness Tests? If so, I'd consider Galrauch to be doing perfect-ish.
Stanks Auto-pass everything but Initiative I'm afraid, so no dice.
 

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I would try and not engage it, or if I did, go with a chunky block of maurauders or something with a bsb nearby. I don't know exactly how fast or manouverable it is but can't you just go past it and smash the squishy infantry in the face? It is only one unit...
 

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It can reliably without wounding it generate 5 Steam Points a turn which propel it 15" causing 6D3 S6 Impact Hits when it makes contact. So yes you can try to ignore it, but it will find you. When it does it will probably take 1-2 turns to grind your unit to death.

If you managed to charge it with Marauders, they Auto hit I reckon you would get 6 wide 18 attacks in total (assuming MoK), so 3 Wounds for which he get 1+ saves. So 1 Wound every 2 Rounds of combat. In his turn he can power up the tank, use the Steam Cannon which will hit, say 10 guys, kill three, then do a mear 4D3 impact hits and kill 6-7 of your guys. So he will kill 10 every two rounds to your 1 wound every 2 rounds.

Aramoro
 

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I would try and not engage it, or if I did, go with a chunky block of maurauders or something with a bsb nearby. I don't know exactly how fast or manouverable it is but can't you just go past it and smash the squishy infantry in the face? It is only one unit...
It has to declare charges as normal, but has 15" movement at full steam, without any randomness, and whatever it hits is charged and will take d3 Impact hits per steam point it used plus an extra d3 (so 6d3 at full steam) for starters. It can't move through difficult terrain, but ignores obstacles in it's path. It simply cannot be ignored/avoided. It also has a cannon and a gun for those turns it's not immediately able to crush you beneath it's wheels.

Oh, and it's guns can be fired in close combat, if it feels the need. And one of it's weapons is a template weapon that doesn't allow armour saves, which it can fire for a single steam point, just for when you really feel the need to clear out the plebs. It's possible to tarpit, certainly, but you'll really want a very cheap unit, and hope that you can get to it, before it gets to your more valuable targets. Or just take Purple sun, and autokill it of course...

[Edit: and armoro get's in first with the explaination while I'm looking up the rules again :)]
 

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It can reliably without wounding it generate 5 Steam Points a turn which propel it 15" causing 6D3 S6 Impact Hits when it makes contact. So yes you can try to ignore it, but it will find you. When it does it will probably take 1-2 turns to grind your unit to death.

If you managed to charge it with Marauders, they Auto hit I reckon you would get 6 wide 18 attacks in total (assuming MoK), so 3 Wounds for which he get 1+ saves. So 1 Wound every 2 Rounds of combat. In his turn he can power up the tank, use the Steam Cannon which will hit, say 10 guys, kill three, then do a mear 4D3 impact hits and kill 6-7 of your guys. So he will kill 10 every two rounds to your 1 wound every 2 rounds.

Aramoro
You see this is what everyone keeps saying but they fail to realise yes it's a 1+ save and in a perfect logical world of probability if we let a calculator do the work it would take as long as you say, but in this game you can never underestimate the chances (or probability that all those ones may come at once or within a a few turns rather than 10000 turns.

I'm also very aware that you could charge and it could never lose a wound, I just think everyone is looking too much at the your never going to get through it in 2 turns of comabt with a block of 50 or 100 men etc...
 

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To be honest the block of 50 is the best option. You'll remain Stubborn for most of the combat as it grinds you to death and you'll probably be able to throw some wound on it. As long as you're Stubborn on a decent value you'll be ok. Also you get two goes at stabbing it for every 1 go it has of grinding you, albeit it is more effective at the old grinding.

But hoping against hope that he rolls an improbable number of 1's is not a good strategy for victory. Otherwise I might as well say i'm going to kill it with my Bretonian Bowmen, 5's to hit, 6's to wound and 1+ save I reckon if I ignore statistics i'll kill it in a couple of turns.

Aramoro
 

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Oh I understand where you are coming from, I'm not disregarding the statistics just saying that it is very possible it may be damaged enough to cause it to become practically useless in the first 2 turns
 

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Oh I understand where you are coming from, I'm not disregarding the statistics just saying that it is very possible it may be damaged enough to cause it to become practically useless in the first 2 turns
And for those of us with bad luck? The fact that you can throw a fully ranked up unit at this thing, and have such a small chance to win is just ridiculous, and the fact that monster-killers and the like can't hurt this thing that much more either, is just as ridiculous.
 

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Oh I understand where you are coming from, I'm not disregarding the statistics just saying that it is very possible it may be damaged enough to cause it to become practically useless in the first 2 turns
Its also possible that your opponent might spontaneously combust mid game meaning you win by default.
 
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