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Number wise, the imperium is still significantly stronger. If you read the fluff in the fluff sections of the rulebook they show a picture of a planet. It has planetary data all over that page and it includes a number of worlds that fall into that worlds classifcation. The number of worlds in the star wars univers fit onto a two page map that has a name for every world.

http://www.moviecritic.com.au/images/star-wars-galaxy-map1.jpg

The imperium has thousands if not millions of worlds. Therefore exponentially more people. Also, how many hive worlds have been mentioned in all of 40k fluff.... those versus Coruscant, meh, no biggie.
 

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as for accuracy, it has already been addresed that the movies were crap for representing what stormtroopers skills are. (If it was accurate, it would be a short, depressing movie (I mean, really, A New Hope should have ended right when C-3PO and R2-D2 walked through the MIDDLE of a firefight))

yes, Empire would have turncoats, but not many, as the Emporer uses a sith mind influencing power to maintain loyalty.

We aren't talking pre-heresy or Rpublic... so please, refrain from using them in your posts

Caponey, that map is actually a terrible representation of the SW galaxy, it misses at least 20 cannon systems (and entire cannon clusters), has several moons hundreds, if not thousands of light-years away from their parents, and systems equally scattered. valiant attempt tho:good:
 

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It does state that the imperial guard numbers billions of soldiers alone and has several hundred systems, but so does the empire... There are a lot of references to several systems around the place in Star wars fluff.....
 

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I think the amount of hive cities in the 40k universe has to mean something for their numbers. Single planets give the Imperium billions of men and women for the Imperial guard. Also, there are guardsmen that are well over a hundred years old and still fighting, so there is multiple generations fighting alongside each other.
 

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Oh, my, god!
i just finished reading all 35 pages of this thread
the one thing that seems to be agreed upon for a SW vs W40k is that a fight between a wookie and an ork would be awsome :)
 

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Simply put, in Star Wars it takes a death star to blow up a planet, however in 40k all it takes is an Imperial cruiser to wipe out an entire planet (exterminatus).

Lets count;

Death Stars: 2 built/destroyed


Imperial Cruisers: unknown amount built/destroyed


Ask yourself again with these numbers, who would win?
 

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Druchii said:
I'm buying stormtrooper armour
I have a set. I built it with the help of several FX people friends. It is as accurate as reference pics and drawings from Lucasfilm allow (said friends go to the Ranch at least once a year). The helmet, however, was made by one of them (he has a vacformer), but all of the interior electronics were installed by me (including the cooling vest and heat exchange unit - built around a peltier diode based circuit).

I'm in the 501st. We do charity work (groups will visit the childrens' hospitals to cheer up the sick kids. Glad to have a helmet on sometimes, so they can't see my eyes tear up.). All the other stormtrooper armour wearing SW geeks are just sad pretenders. :D About on par with lycra wearing ST fans. Or even ManFay (shudder!!!). Glorified cosplayers, really.

Somebody quoted the Battle barge being able to transport 3 CHAPTERS, and then went on to say that a CHAPTER was 10 squads of 10 men. No, that's a company. A BB can transport 3 companies and support assets. If a BB could transport 3 chapters, then the vaunted astartees would be carpoolin'. Also, if a chapter was ONLY 100 marines, then somebody seriously misread the codex:Astartes.

Me, I like both SW and 40k. My SM (company) are painted up like my 501st brethren. Fluffwise, they are part of the 13th founding, using Imperial fists geneseed, and cloned from specific donor stock (the 13th founding had several 'wrong' production methods, cloning being one of them). This explains the identical heads on them (those without helmets).

Who would win?
Lucas.
He will buy out GW, and then licence Hasbro to produce pre-painted 40k models. :biggrin:
Edit: Left off the cheesy grin icon to indicate the SARCASM.
 

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.........Who would win?
Lucas.
He will buy out GW, and then licence Hasbro to produce pre-painted 40k models.
GWS would never whore themselves to that two-bit writer now, or in 39,000 years! He may have the money but its never going to happen. Hell, a cataclysmic war between a pre-heresy Imperium and the Old Republic is more likely to happen!

Besides, hasbro sucks and so does wizards of the coast, everything that comes out of those two is useless CRAP. (except magic:the gathering and JUST the D&D rulebooks.) Pre-painted miniatures especially D&D mini's are pure garbage. When I play D&D I use GWS models.
 

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OMG this is like the best thread ever!! Star wars and 40k, my 2 favourite sci-fi genres going face to face... i HAVE to get involved!!

Rite to complicate matters first off there have been many "ruling factions" in the Star Wars universe over the past few years: Republic, Empire, New Republic, Galactic Alliance all the way up to the new Sith Empire. I think the best example to use to compare the 2 is the Galactic Alliance at the end of the Yuhzen Vong War as the Galazy is pretty much the most united its ever been, so with that in mind...

Rite... scale. Imperium: Galaxy wide. Star Wars: Galaxy wide so why does it not stand to reason that the populations of said galaxies are not the same?? The SWs gal is not a small fraction of the Imperium, its a massive Galaxy wide empire!! Factor in the fact that aliens are ALLIES in SWs and the Imperium just nukes the xenos then why doesnt theSWs galaxy have an advantage in numbers?? I mean the Mon-Calamari, Bothans, Sullustians, Wookies etc etc form a MASSIVE proportion of the standing army of the Alliance.

Technology: Rite, im afraid the Alliance has the Imperium beaten here. Turbo laser batteries on an Imperial Star destroyer can fire once ever 2-3 seconds. The solid slugs from the Imperial navy take a lot lot longer, and Torpedoes even longer than that. Lances im not sure about but im guessing the same (anyone know??) All SWs ships have Ray AND Particle shielding so it doesn’t matter if your torp is the size of a tower block its still going to hit the shields of the ISD. SWs ships trade salvo after salvo of heavy laser cannons and grind down shields on other ships.
HOWEVER there is very little in the SWs universe that could cope with a nova cannon, and apart from the one off special weapons like the Death stars, Galactic guns and Eclipse SDs Etc. But as we ALL know, super wepons dont win wars, men with rifles do :p. Saying that, NCs according to fluff take 30 mins to reload, so in most cases that’s 1 shot per battle so there is only so much damage they can do. Add to that tactical weapons like Gravity Well projectors, Ion cannons, vastly superior Fighters and Bombers (Xwings, Bwings etc) I really think that the StarWars universe would really hammer the Imperium in space combat.

Jedi Vs Phsycers. Now that is again pretty clear cut in my opinion. Jedi have total mastery of the Force, whenever ive seen phsycers they are screaming shells of men holding their heads and as likely as not to kill themselves and their allies as the enemy. In combat a Jedi is increadable. Redirecting laz shots back into guardies, cutting through anything with one swipe: Power armour, tank hulls, terminator armor I really don’t think it would make much difference, I don’t think the Imperium has anything that comes close, but there are hardly any Jedi at all so again, there is only so much damage they can do.

Troops. Now then, things are a bit different. The imperium comes into its own on the ground. Stormtroopers are well trained, armed and equipped but tbh they are tactically very unflexible. At-Ats would get mauled by Titans hands down. There is very little armour in the SWs universe at all, but the awesome ground attack fighters like xwings, bwings etc would probably balance that out pretty quickly. SWs fighters fire proton torpedoes which are described as small yield nukes designed to punch a big hole in a Star destroyer. I think even a titans shields would struggle with that, and once the void shields are down 1-2 torps would slay it. Bearing in mind the Alliance has thousands and thousands of fighters and titans are very prized in the Imperium I think that wouldn’t work out well for the Imperium :-S
Quite simply Space marines would crush any Alliance troops ive ever seen/read about no question. They are without equal, but they cant be everywhere and while they are hard as nails and deadly in combat they are always outnumbered and they would have the same kinds of troubles they have always had. They would still own anything in a straight fight of course, but they may have problems with a Jedi or 2 :-S

Result: Probably a draw with a slight lean towards the Star wars universe… but one thing is certain… it would be the greatest war ever. Fact.

Anyway that’s probably enough for now. Anyway its totally impossible to really compare 2 fictional universes but that was my attempt anyway :mrgreen:
 

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I am sorry but Pskyers are much more powerful than Jedi. In game stats they look weak but if you read some of the BL novels then you will see the power the Pskyers have. In one book a Pskyer has the power to make a whole hive his puppets ( that is a few Million) can a jedi do that ?
Sorry but even in Combat while they dont have light sabers Pskyers have much more powerful offenence powers to a Jedi. Sure if a Jedi gets close he is going to slice that Pskyer up but Pskyers are much more powerful in terms of psykic powers.
I am taking about the beta and Alpha level Pskyers that are used as battle Pskyers or are members of the Inq.
 

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Discussion Starter · #356 ·
i would have to disagree with you on that one talos. the jedi and the sith are two different types of force users, one centered on defense and the other on offense. i am sure there are some psychers in the 40k universe that would absolutely rape a jedi, yes, but they are very very few in number. the jedi's powers are centered more on defense, control of one's mind and the protection of that body and mind. a psycher would have a very hard time. also you have to take into effect that there are different levels of jedi as there are psychers so you wouldnt have a padawan going head to head with mephiston like people.

as for the sith they are centered souley on offence. they are the big damage dealers and life takers. yes there are few jedi and sith but i doubt they wouldnt band together if they were attacked by the imperium. this would increase their numbers greatly but they would still not have as much as the imperium. still a sith lord would absolutely merc on the battlefield. also on a side note wookie and ork battles would be the shit. everyone in the war would stop to watch this one play out.
 

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The Imperium would win. While the spaceships look big in Star Wars they are shit compared to the Imperiums which are measured in kilometers. The storm troopers would be powerful IG but would be alot weaker than SM, and the chances are there wouldn't be more stormtroopers than SM. The only things Star Wars have to beat the Imperium are the Force and the Death Star. And there are not enough Jedi/Sith to win and the Death Star is proven in Star Wars to be beatable. Taking out the Jedi would be difficult though, they could slice SM in half as easily as a stromtrooper, and it would be the ultimate CC weapon, something like no armour or invunerable saves allowed. BU the Imperium would win with ease, I can't even bring myself to suggest that Boba could beat Shrike. Altough Han Solo and Chewbacca would kill everyone with there pure awesomeness and the Millenium Falcon would not be defeated.
 

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Simply put, in Star Wars it takes a death star to blow up a planet, however in 40k all it takes is an Imperial cruiser to wipe out an entire planet (exterminatus).
Sure, the Death Star destroyed a planet in a single hit – that hit turned the planet into an asteroid belt. An exterminatus doesn’t do that mostly. Don’t get me wrong, I believe there is a weapon that is capable of doing it, but generally they don’t.

Additionally, Star Destroyers can (and have) destroyed planets with orbital bombardments. Much like an exterminatus. Add to that there are many more weapons in SW that can accomplish the destruction of a planet (and some that can destroy whole stars) and I think that the advantage still remains with SW in space.

Lets count; Death Stars: 2 built/destroyed; Imperial Cruisers: unknown amount built/destroyed. Ask yourself again with these numbers, who would win?
Um, SW still wins in space at least. Not quite sure why you want to compare Death Stars to Cruisers (unless you think that only Death Stars can destroy a planet - which is incorrect), but it's not a valid comparison.

I think the best example to use to compare the 2 is the Galactic Alliance at the end of the Yuhzen Vong War as the Galazy is pretty much the most united its ever been, so with that in mind...
I think we were doing Empire (with Palpitine) as per the OP; even if it wasn’t as united, it would become united quickly faced with an external threat.

Rite... scale. Imperium: Galaxy wide. Star Wars: Galaxy wide so why does it not stand to reason that the populations of said galaxies are not the same?? . . . . .
Imperium is not galaxy wide – that’s the problem. The SW Empire, by way of contrast, is a galaxy wide government. The population differences between the two are vast, with the SW Empire being much larger.

Technology: Rite, im afraid the Alliance has the Imperium beaten here. Turbo laser batteries on an Imperial Star destroyer can fire once ever 2-3 seconds. The solid slugs from the Imperial navy take a lot lot longer, and Torpedoes even longer than that. Lances im not sure about but im guessing the same (anyone know??) All SWs ships have Ray AND Particle shielding so it doesn’t matter if your torp is the size of a tower block its still going to hit the shields of the ISD. SWs ships trade salvo after salvo of heavy laser cannons and grind down shields on other ships.
Yes, the Imperium is beaten hands down by the Empire in tech. Some things to keep in mind. Blasters are not lasers (this includes turbolaser cannons which are a type of blaster). Blasters are a serious design improvement over lasers using both light and a high energy particle beam in combination (though there was a variant of the blaster that used plasma instead which was more damaging to drones and other technological systems).

As to rates of fire, I don’t know if there are any GW cannon sources the discuss this. If you know of any, let me know please since I’m interested.

HOWEVER there is very little in the SWs universe that could cope with a nova cannon,
The nova cannon isn’t anything special for SW actually. It’s just a big nuke fired from a rail gun. And the fact that it’s fired from the rail gun doesn’t even matter since none of the KE ever hits the target; the detonation of the nuke occurs before impact (the speed just serves to get it there faster). SW shielding easily copes with this weapon. Add to this there are only 9 Battleships packing Nova Cannons in the Imperium and that they don’t know how to make the things anymore and you have an even less decisive weapon system.

Jedi Vs Phsycers . . . I don’t think the Imperium has anything that comes close, but there are hardly any Jedi at all so again, there is only so much damage they can do.
I remain unconvinced either way on this one. For one thing, the two systems are just too different here for me to easily reconcile.

Troops. ….Quite simply Space marines would crush any Alliance troops ive ever seen/read about no question. They are without equal, ….
Well here I think you are right and wrong. IG and Storm Troopers and pretty close with the edge in equipment going to Stormtroopers. But Space Marines don't beat Mandalorians. My previous work comparing them shows that Mandalorians win against Tactical Marines 3:2 and against Assault Marines 2:1. And this is without the best of the armor that they wore. If you upgrade the Mandalorians to Besker armor, the numbers are 3:1 for Tactical Marines and 4:1 for Assault Marines.

As to tanks, you’re right. 40K armor is just better both in quantity and in ability that the SW armor. You’re also right about the fliers in SW. Just remember that even with good fliers, eventually you have to actually take and hold ground. And that can’t be done from the air.

I am sorry but Pskyers are much more powerful than Jedi. In game stats they look weak but if you read some of the BL novels then you will see the power the Pskyers have. In one book a Pskyer has the power to make a whole hive his puppets ( that is a few Million) can a jedi do that ?
Yes they do, and have – Palpitine was very adept at it and his influence effected an entire Star System, not just a single world. That he chose to be more subtle with his power was a function of his purpose. He could just as easily have completely dominated the whole area, but then his true colors would have been shown so to speak. On the flip side, do you know of any 40K psykers that have pulled Battleship out of orbit and slammed it into a moon, against the full power of its engines? I don’t, but it’s happened at least 2 times I know of in SW. That said, I can’t account for things like Gates of Infinity or Vortex of Doom. These just don’t have good analogs in the SW universe.

The Imperium would win. While the spaceships look big in Star Wars they are shit compared to the Imperiums which are measured in kilometers.
No, SW fleets dominate the Imperium’s pretty much hands down. Class for Class they are bigger, faster, better armed, better shielded, better armored and more flexible both tactically and strategically. In addition, the Imperium is outnumbered about 1000 to 1 in total number of Battleships, and it’s even worse as you go down in class size.

The storm troopers would be powerful IG but would be alot weaker than SM, and the chances are there wouldn't be more stormtroopers than SM.
Partially true; while Space Marines would take Stromtroopers hands down, there are way more Stormtroopers than there are even IG troopers. Orders of magnitude more.

The only things Star Wars have to beat the Imperium are the Force and the Death Star. . . and the Death Star is proven in Star Wars to be beatable.
Sure, the Death Star was beatable, but it took massively sophisticated Bothan spies to penetrate the thing and even then the Emperor had to let them find the data before they found the weakness. What makes you think that technologically weaker Imperium agents could even find the weakness? There are no machine spirits for them to talk to in SW, and Palpitine is unlikely to give them the data in a gambit to force them out of the shadows. Plus, even if they did get the blueprints of the Death Star, their computers couldn’t have understood the language nor would they have analyzed it as the Rebel’s did. No, the Imperium would have tried to tackle the Death Star heads on, and would have been humiliated.
 

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Just going to throw out a few bits of SW lore just to get some handle on the size of the Star wars Galactic Empire the independant Corporate Sector has 30,000 SYSTEMS, they tread on eggshells to avoid stirring up the empire. The glactic senate had a senator not for each system but for each sector... The galactic empire itself controlled 50 million systems (pulled from a website which referenced 2nd edition star wars RPG)...

I can put a figure on the imperiums worlds at roughly 1,000,000 worlds (from the imperium of man section of the 3rd ed rule book) Note thats 1,000,000 worlds not necesarily systems... The imperium of man is at best 1/50th the size of the galactic empire...

With regards to planet killers The star wars universe has far more than just the deathstars, although the deathstars vapourize planets in a single shot. The galactic empire had plenty of other planet killers Including virus bombing techniques. Im pretty certain I remember the empire using a virus to destroy a planets population as a publicity stunt blaming it on the rebel alliance! An inquisitor has to believe a planet incurably corrupt to order the exterminatus, The gallactic empire destroyed planets on a whim just for propaganda.

The star wars galaxy had its equivalents of terminator armour, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/GTU_AV-1A_Assault_Armor However the galactic empire hadnt lost the technology of its making, when faced with a foe against whom this armour was required they could turn it out en masse in short order.

I love WH40k as much as anyone, but the imperium of man even at the time of the great crusades had lost most of its technology. The emperor merely slowed down the slide, but even at the time of the great crusades man kind was falling apart at the seams. The imperium is simply rotting away. I would guess the "imperium" would have been at its strongest in the dark age of technology, although of course it wasnt then the "imperium" Unfortunately we know very little of humanity before the age of strife. The imperium of man is a mess logistically speaking, They can lose a system and not know about it for 50 years... communications and travel appears to be slow and unreliable in WH40k.

The WH40k imperium is 1/50th the size of the Empire, and is in a state of decay and dissarray. The imperiums administration is horrendously medieval, The Empire was fast efficient had far superior gallactic communication and was still on a forward momentum on technology.

The gallactic empire still had the ability to create new technology to counter new threats. The empire could still fall back to droids to give even greater numbers of soldiers fast inexpensive and completely without remorse or fear. They could turn out heavy armour in no time. The imperium has precious little flexibility that we know of, its technology is pretty much time warped, and their ability to create the better stuff, new is patchy at best.

I think sheer numbers, the empire being 50x the size of the imperium and the empires far superior communication and ability to innovate would be decisive. Terra could fall long before a fraction of the space marine chapters were even aware of a threat. The imperiums forces are often independant armies not under central orders, try ordering all 1000 marine chapters at once, it just wouldnt happen. Try getting a high lord of terra to order the space wolves to abandon the fang and defend ophilia 7 at all costs. It aint going to happen. Whereas if the emperor gave an order to evacuate coruscant and defend dantooine at all costs it would happen without question!

And on the ewoks note the imperium has lost whole worlds to ferals armed with simple tools, chiros, gathalamor (2nd edition sisters codex)
 
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