[bl0203]

If you have an Attack Bike Unit with two A-Bikes and one is killed do you have to take a Stand Alone Test every turn in order for the single bike to remain in play??? I hope not! Its still a scoring unit right?

Any rate, thanks for the help.

 

[O'sharan]

YEp i think so. can find the rule saying otherwisw

 

[The Son of Horus]

A lone attack bike does have to take a last man standing check at the start of each turn because it is the last model in its unit. If you have two bikes though, and one is left, the unit is at 50% of its starting strength.

 

[bl0203]

So is it tactically sound to use two man attack bike squads? That would be rough losing a scoring unit to a Leadership Test.

 

[uberschveinen]

Only if you were going to use them anyway. The best thing is single bikes because they don't have to take any morale tests ut side of CC, and if they end up there you've screwed up anyway.

 

[Galahad]

Attack Bikes are best solo, IMO.

But if you don;t have enough FA slots to spread them out, then I would suggest units of 3, to make them more robust.

If you go with two then yes, losing one bike makes you take last man standing checks, but the unit is still scoring (unless it's falling back)

I would suggest swquads of 3 for Heavy Bolter bikes, and solo units for Multimeltas.

 

[The Son of Horus]

Unfortunately, Codex: Space Marine armies require two-strong units minimum-- the Angel codecies make the return to single-model units.

I've always placed my trust in land speeders over attack bikes. I've always thought that attack bikes worked best not in squadrons, but as an attachment to a biker squad.

 

[Galahad]

If you;re fielding Codex Marines then yeah, just buy Speeders.

Attack Bikes aren;t super great in C:SM

 

[bl0203]

I run BA, so I was fielding two squads of two A-Bikes w/MM for anti tank(2 squads 2 modles each)...Now I guess I'll have to reconsider running three solo w/MM. But then the problem is spending 50 points...I feel so short on anti tank. Thanks for the help GUYZ.

 

[Someguy]

Bear in mind that they still have ATSKNF. They might run off but they will usually rally again.

Also this is a leadership test, not morale. As such there is no -1 modifier for being below half strength... even if the unit was below half strength.

 

[Bishop120]

If you fail LMS you dissappear completely without any chance to regroup.

 

[Galahad]

If you fail LMS you dissappear completely without any chance to regroup.

According to P49 of the BBB, if you fail your LMS check you begin to Fall Back.

And with ATSKNF, you automatically pass LD checks to regroup, are allowed to regroup if you're under 50% (but not if out of cohesion or if an enemy is within 6"), and you can move normally

So, for all intents and purposes, doesn't this make Marines immune to LMS?

Seriously, you pass your LMS, you move and fight nomrally. You fail, you begin to fall back. This is determined at the start of your turn.

Now, at the beginning of your movement phase, a unit that's Falling Back gets to try to regroup, (before they make their fallback move). So if you automatically regroup and are allowed to move normally afterwards, then the end result of failing your LMS check is...getting to move and shoot nomrally.

So, come to think of it, LMS isn;t a big deal.

Edit:
Whoopsie. It seems the SM codex (and the BA codex) explain that in addition to the regular ATSKNF rules, that SM are still subject to LMS, and that they regroup *after* their fall-back move. But it doesn't say that you're not allowed to move after your fall-back move (since regrouping happens at the start of your move phase, presumably your fallback move happens before that), so you can try to recover the ground you lost

So a solo biker who fails his LD test would fall back 3d6" (mathematical average of about 11.5"), and then regroup and move 12" (or turbo-boost), presumably back the way he fell back.

So LMS IS a problem, but mainly in that you're going to be burning all your movement just getting back to where you started.

 

[Bishop120]

You know... I swear I had read that whenever a model fails last man standing they just dissappeared. *grumble* darned dimensional jumps... anyways yeah... at least you regroup each round only to test to see if you run again... if you dont run again then you get to move/shoot as usuall. The nice thing about ATSKNF is that if your a regular marine you can even shoot Heavy Weapons after you regroup... doesnt really help Bikes though. Man I swear that it had said "the model suffers an outbreak of common sences and hides under a rock untill the battle is over"...

 

[bl0203]

WOW! My head hurts...:grin:

So to sum it up;

1) My single A-Bike takes a LMS test and fails falling back 3d6 inches.

2)Next turn he automatically regroups because of ATSKNF.

3) He tests again to see if he can pass LMS, he does, so he can move/shoot normally.

4) This cycle then repeats itself until the games is over or my A-bike is killed.

However I believe its movement phase is lost to regrouping, page 49 third paragraph down under regrouping, "If the Unit passes its LD test, it regroups. It cannot move any further during that movement phase, except that models are allowed to consolidate. Once a unit regroups it fights as normal." I guess its pretty vague when it come to LMS.

Do I have this right or am I totally lost. Please let me know...

 

[Bishop120]

However I believe its movement phase is lost to regrouping, page 49 third paragraph down under regrouping, "If the Unit passes its LD test, it regroups. It cannot move any further during that movement phase, except that models are allowed to consolidate. Once a unit regroups it fights as normal." I guess its pretty vague when it come to LMS.

ATSKNF overides this with the marines regrouping automatically and being able to operate as if they hadnt moved at all. They can even shoot heavy weapons if they so choose. Otherwise everything you said is correct! k:

 

[bl0203]

Thats a pretty useful fact, I never realized ATSKNF was that powerful, THANKS FOR THE HELP!!! :victory:

 

[Bishop120]

Yep ATSKNF is actually more powerfull than fearless if you ask me. Sure you can still be pinned, but as far as loosing combat its better. You get a chance to pull back and assualt again. If you fail then its treated the same as fearless.

 

[Galahad]

And don't forget you can still move after you regroup (thanks to ATSKNF) so you fall back, then you can move or turnbo-boost back to where you want to be.

It slows you down, but there's no real danger of a bike fleeing off the board unless he was close to the edge

Still best to avoid it by either going solo (multimeltas) or groups of 3 (heavy bolter)

Or just buying cheap AC speeders

 

[Someguy]

I'm not at all sure you can move after you regroup in this situation.

Normally you can do what you like if you fall back due to enemy action in your opponent's turn. You regroup in their turn at the end of your fall back move and begin your turn not broken, so you can act normally.

However in this case you are falling back and regrouping in your own turn. As a result you end up being able to do the same kind of things that any other unit which regrouped in its turn. As I understand it you get a 3" consolidate type move, you can fire (counting as having moved I think, since you did) and you can assault, but you don't get a standard move or turbo boost.

That makes sense to me. You would be moving twice in the turn otherwise. It doesn't seem right at all that a unit could fall back 3d6" and then turbo boost 24". It would have to go very fast for that to work.

 

[Bishop120]

Heres how it breaks down..

Opponents turn.. bikers killed... left with 1 Attack Bike/Bike.. LD test for causalties.. Fail.. Fall back 3D6.. Pass everything normal
Your turn.. Regroup.. LMS test at -1 for being under 50%.. if you pass everything normal.. if you fail fall back 3d6
Rinse repeat the last line till the game ends

I have heard debates though about any leadership modifiers for LMS tests.. some gaming centers I have played at have it with no modifiers rationalizing that its the lone model taking his own leadership in full.

It is possible to keep the lone model from regrouping tho if the enemy is close enough. Just keep a squad or something within 6" of the fleeing model/unit and try to "escort" them off the board. This is actually a great use of bikers and jump pack squads.. especially against things they might not actually beat in HtH. I broke a unit of chaos terminators and I escorted them off with a couple of assassins. As the assassins where only worth 40pts a piece it was worth loosing 2 of them to keep the squad running till they hit the board edge and ran away.