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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I have a question and it's a stretch, also I have no plans of ever doing this but anyway -

It states in the rules that one can take a character of one's own creation and use the statlines of a special character.

So would any of you allow a player to say take Marneus Calgar and then take a special character of their own creation with the statlines of Marneus Calgar?

I wouldn't do this because if I take a special character I'm going play that character, but I just wanted to see what others thought of such.
 

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The character with the Marneus statline counts as him for all purpouses including on the limit of how many can be taken.
 

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If based correctly, and use's the same points and rules then its fine by me, I've made my own Farseer that use's Eldrads stat line, slightly different model, but same size, same base size, points ect and no-one has a problem with it as long as I say so before hand. I plan on making my own Yriel soon as well but he'll be called Aeothus :p
 

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If based correctly, and use's the same points and rules then its fine by me, I've made my own Farseer that use's Eldrads stat line, slightly different model, but same size, same base size, points ect and no-one has a problem with it as long as I say so before hand. I plan on making my own Yriel soon as well but he'll be called Aeothus :p
That is all well, but that is not what the OP asks for.

The first person replying has it right, OP.
If you take Marneus Calgar, you take Marneus Calgar. If you want to give him another name, then do so.

However, his unit entry is still unique. Hence, you can not take him twice in a single list.

In a sort of way, you pick the Unit Entries for the list - not the character ;)
 

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Panzer, he's talking about taking TWO of the special character, one of which is "a character of his own creation". Which is Uber wrong in my book.
 

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Ohhhh, my bad, oh in that case no, never two of the same. Again, sorry for the stupidity
 

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Remember when it says Statline it means stats, wargear, special rules everything. So Psudeo Calgar effectively IS Marneus Calgar so you cannot take both.

Aramoro
 

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Yes. Another question to consider, particularly in tournaments, is can you use a different model to represent a "counts as" character`s rules?

eg: I convert my own plastic spacemarine with two powerfists and built in bolters. Would it be acceptable to count him as Calgar? Or to count him as my own character using Calgar`s rules? These have caused a few disputes among the tightasses in my gaming circle.
Frankly, I have no problem with doing this, because to me it encourages creativity. A few of the characters in my own fluff are based on GW heroes and villains.
 

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Yes. Another question to consider, particularly in tournaments, is can you use a different model to represent a "counts as" character`s rules?

eg: I convert my own plastic spacemarine with two powerfists and built in bolters. Would it be acceptable to count him as Calgar? Or to count him as my own character using Calgar`s rules? These have caused a few disputes among the tightasses in my gaming circle.
Frankly, I have no problem with doing this, because to me it encourages creativity. A few of the characters in my own fluff are based on GW heroes and villains.
A character using Calgars rules and calgar himself are inseperable when it comes to the tabletop. It only really matters if you are into the backstory while fighting if it is Calgar or another guy that counts as him.
 

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Yes that is fine as long as you state clearly that he 'Counts as Marneus Calgar'. I mean it's not covered in the rules per say except under the, 'its just a game rule'. What you're not allowed is say, Calgar's Stat line with Shrikes Rules with Vulkan Hestans Wargear. Nor are you allowed to Play Blood Angels with a 'Count's as Vulkan' as they're from different codex.

Aramoro
 

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If your home-made model is similar to the model your´e imitating, you use it, and just be cautios to tell anyone you´re playing that "this is my own version of xxxx" with the right base, similar height, and weapons etc.

If they start denying and being a bitch, it´s great to have a original model in the bag, so he can shutit and then start crushing him with style.


"Its named a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, kills like a duck, looks like a duck, its a duck!" :D

But no, you cant have 2 of the same "unique" character, nomatter how different or alike the model is, Unique = only one in the FoC.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
yeah I figured as much because ofcourse in the rules it says you can only have one of a unique character. But then you also have the rule about count as and I figured some unscrupulous player might pull the ole' this is Marneus Calgar and this is Capt. Buttplug and he has the same stats as Marneus Calgar.

Concerning tournies I'd probably stick with the original model and character or call ahead first and see if it's ok with the judges. I think in a tournie you probably would run into a lot of people who would be a bit of a dick about you bringing some made of character and model stating it's Vulkan, Eldrad, etc.
 

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Concerning tournies I'd probably stick with the original model and character or call ahead first and see if it's ok with the judges. I think in a tournie you probably would run into a lot of people who would be a bit of a dick about you bringing some made of character and model stating it's Vulkan, Eldrad, etc.

I really don't see the problem here. You don't have to have the GW supplied calgar model to use the calgar statline. As long as the model is based using mostly GW product and has the same gear as the character you are imitating, there is no problem. In this case, modeling a regular marine with duel PFs and built in bolters would be fine to play a power armored Calgar. You could then call him Fred or whatever you liked and say it counts as Calgar in power armor.
 

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The problem are that 5-10% minority of tourney (and even the odd casual) players who'll bitch and moan about WYSIWYG, incorrect models, base sizing, not being informed, cover save abuse and/or a bunch of other things that can be easily solved by those of us with common sense. This minority attempts to stomp on creativity and generally makes the hobby unpleasant for people who love to convert, like myself. Believe me, I've seen/experienced some shockers, and the worst thing is it only takes one person to bitch and ruin things.

So take you conversion/count-as to tourneys, but be aware that some people regard 'count-as' as unacceptable. Technically there are no rules against it though, as long as you follow WYSIWYG and inform your opponent beforehand (I always point out what's what before the game starts).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
yeah CRCL I've experienced the same and it's an absolute pain in the ass. I once saw a guy literally stomping up and down shouting at the top of his lungs about a conversion because the guys gun didn't look exactly like whatever weapon it was suppose to be (can't remember now). Anyway the whining player assumed it was a much weaker weapon and went in near psychotic spasms when he discovered it wasn't.
 

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My own story of counts-as:

I play a renegade chapter of SM called custodians of stealth. They have a janitorial theme (brooms and buckets are weapons on my HQ) but on the whole they're WYSIWYG. With the exception on that one HQ, who counts as Sicarius, everything is fine. That one guy is always explained before battles, and I always ask for consent before using him. This one man said I could use him as Sicarius before the battle, and I figured that was that. But the guy then flipped when I tried to use the relevant special rules. Sheesh...

On the whole, it'll usually be ok, but the few times it goes wrong will be rather unpleasant.
 

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Always beware a flanking attack from Captain Buttplug!!
 

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Its a nice take on the rules... but taking Carneus Malgar as leader of your Hawk Lords is still selecting Mareus for the purpose of the FoC and unique SC rules- all it means is that you can take any C:SM character and use them in any colour scheme you want without people objecting that you cant take Marneus in a non-ultramarines force.

Personally I would have no issue in any tournament I was helping to run if someone used a converted model to represent Mareus in another force... but if you are playing ultramarines then you should be calling him by his right name and using the right model: it would be preferable if any Mareus clones were based on the correct model but converted to you own chapters iconology but its not exactly like you can be forced to remove it unless it doesnt meet WYSIWYG (ie if it has 2 powerfists with in built bolters its obviously using Calgar's rules).
 
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