[synagas]

OK, a question that was raised in the last game a few friends and I were playing. A unit of High Elven Spearmen (5x5) where charged by heavy chariots. The chariots did impact wounds and took out 6 models. Now if they were armed with swords those models who died could not fight back as the rulebook makes it very clear that models that step forward to replace killed models may not fight that round.

Here though is the issue, spears allow you to fight in three ranks, so theoretically if 6 models died, that still left 9 models to fight back. Problem is, all 9 had to step forward since the dude in front died and by the rulebook that means they do not get to strike this round.

So question is this, for spears when fighting, are they really as bad as they seem as you only need to kill the front rank for them to lose the whole bonus of spears that round? Seems kind of weak that you only need to kill 5 models to take 15 (or 10 for most armies) attacks away from the unit. Seems like that by the rules, but has this been fixed anywhere?

 

[Tim/Steve]

You are getting too deep into the rules there my friend- HE spearmen fight in 3 ranks, in this case that means that 15 get to fight... if 6 die from impacts that gives you 9 left. All this stuff about stepping forward is just explaination, not proper rules as such.

 

[synagas]

The only issue with that, and I do agree with you on the point, is that the rules simply say "...and models that are stepping forward from rear ranks to replace them can't attack that turn." (pg 36).

I imagine he is digging to deep to protect his own models, but is there anywhere in the rules that counter this for spearmen? Otherwise, I can't see a way around the fact as the rulebook does say any that fall will be replaced from behind. Thoughts?

 

[Tim/Steve]

Yes, that line isnt referring to the 2nd rank stepping forward into the 1st rank- in the case of HE spearmen its referring to the 4th rank stepping forward into the 3rd rank. The models in the 3rd rank can attack... but not if they started in the 4th (or higher) rank. Obviously in your case you also have someone fromt he 4th rank advancing intot he 2nd, so that guy can't attack either.

To work out combat simply find out how many models can attack at the start of combat and take the number killed before you can attack... anyone who says other is twisting the rules, either through being a noob and not understanding the rules or is trying to cheat... either way probably deserves a slap (unless they've only been playing a short while).

 

[olderplayer]

Fortunately, that issue is fixed in 8th edition.

 

[Creon]

In 7th, it's very simple. You take the starting number who could fight (15). Subtract the 6 that died (9). That's how many attacks he gets. 2ndly, Impact hits don't affect the number of attacks he gets in the HTH phase, since it's before the combat starts, officially.

In 8th, everyone fights in as many ranks as they get, no matter how many die.

 

[karlhunt]

Are you sure? I was farily sure that impact hits happened at the begging of combat but before ASF. That would imply that six dead to impact hits would not be striking back. Although the whole conversation is moot with 8th ed.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Yea, I disagrew with Creon on that one... but since we will all now be playing 8th anyway it doesnt really matter.