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... I give up.
yeah, I gave up too, hes too stubborn and not the brightest bulb in the box obviously, and he wants to stick to his guns about how CC sucks, despite all the information showing otherwise.
 

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The Long Fang rules make perfect sense assuming everyone wasn't an elite genetically modified super solider, raised from childhood for the sole purpose of war. Long Fangs appear to be the only ones who can take a sergeant who can tell 2 guys to fire at that tank, and you two guys fire at THAT tank. I mean I know this is a fiendishly difficult thing they're trying, clearly because if the sergeant dies they revert to a all firing at the same thing, unable to self determine what they should shoot at, perhaps they draw lots or something to choose a target. Presumably regular Space Marine sergeants spend their entire lives just shouting at them 'You fire at that, you fire at that you useless metal pricks' whilst his squad mates gleefully ignore him and continue all firing the same way.
Yeah. This.

Before this thread, I didn't realise that all the other space marines who had been fighting for decades, trained from a young age, implanted with a seed that makes them the best warriors that exist within the entire galaxy-spanning imperium, wouldn't be able to think for themselves at all.
 

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Ancient Relic
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please read the rulebook. units cant split fire, it is the way the rules work and has fluff justifications in the rulebook. just like the long fang split fire rule is explained perfectly in their fluff section. The rule is there, suck it up and deal with it.
 

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Hehe according to the fluff, normal chapter dev squads are about experienced as bloodclaws......
 

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Rattlehead
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Hell yeah, they're only a few years of weapons training away from being illiterate barbarians.

Anyways, as I believe I have previously stated, melee is cool. Close combat isn't in the game because smacking someone in the face with a Chainaxe is practical, it's there because its fucking awesome.

Midnight
 

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Long fangs vs sternguard thing,
Long fangs are older, know each other better as pack brother for a long time etc, they are space wolves and subsequently less pressed for drills and whatnot and most importantly, are from a newer codex! If you were to compare IG stormtroopers to the old kaskarins, they would be infinately better. Compare chaos marines now to the old codex ones, much better again (I mean the standard troops, not the codex as a whole). When a new codex is made, they invariably try to make them good, and often seem to get a little overzealous.
And what the fuck are you all complaining about? Sternguard special ammo is up in my top ten list of most god-damned awsome special rules in the history of forever!
BTW, someone said earlier on that Dante was the oldest marine, not true. He is the oldest fully living loyalist marine, Bjorn the Fell-Handed's the oldest and about half the populous of the CSM seem to be 10k years old, and yet abaddon is somehow only a bit better than Calgar :ireful2:... but that's another story.
 

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Long fangs vs sternguard thing,
Long fangs are older, know each other better as pack brother for a long time etc, they are space wolves and subsequently less pressed for drills and whatnot and most importantly, are from a newer codex! If you were to compare IG stormtroopers to the old kaskarins, they would be infinately better. Compare chaos marines now to the old codex ones, much better again (I mean the standard troops, not the codex as a whole). When a new codex is made, they invariably try to make them good, and often seem to get a little overzealous.
And what the fuck are you all complaining about? Sternguard special ammo is up in my top ten list of most god-damned awsome special rules in the history of forever!
BTW, someone said earlier on that Dante was the oldest marine, not true. He is the oldest fully living loyalist marine, Bjorn the Fell-Handed's the oldest and about half the populous of the CSM seem to be 10k years old, and yet abaddon is somehow only a bit better than Calgar :ireful2:... but that's another story.
Actually even taking into account the warps effects on aging most CSM named characters are at least 1 millenia old now. Heresy 35M current setting 41-42M. Mind you their age isn't that surprising considering kharn has been brought back from the dead at least once.
 

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Unforgiven
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I don't find the split fire to be too much of an issue. If you think of every codex as a separate faction with different rules, it's fine mechanically.

That said, the fluff justification *is* silly in comparison with the fluff from any other chapter. Space Marine Sergeants are all veterans of a hundred campaigns, to inlcude Devastator Sgts, and long fang team leads are no more experienced than that. So while the fluff may "justify" it, the fluff boils down to Long Fangs being "moar awesomer" than other marines.
 

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The entire reason that Long Fangs have that rule in the first place is to differentiate them from normal Marines.

I don't understand why there has to be a fluff justification for it to be an acceptable thing. Ravenwing Bikes have Scout. Why? To make them different from normal Bikers. Deathwing Terminators are Fearless. Why? To make them different. That's all the reason needed and it certainly isn't worth anyone getting upset over.
 

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Discussion Starter #170
see I'm for the whole to make them different from the rest, you don't want the 1000 chapters of the adeptus astartes being exactly the same, that would just be... dull and exactly what the Space Smurfs would want. :biggrin:

having a theme behind the army is fine, but claiming that the fluff of a single unit is the reason why they can do it is kind of silly, if we were using fluff to design how a unit plays then Eldar Farseer, hell even warlocks should be able to mind rape any one without needing to roll any dice... but now-a-days 'Everyone and their mums have better powers round here' (rep to anyone who guesses what I based that off, been watching it today).

but yeah this thread has gone completely off the rails here, I don't know why it got into a massive discussion about Dakka and Choppa'. But if it is off the rails I might as well go off some more rails too. I foudn a thread earlier by Sir_m1ke making a 5th ed Eldar codex and I liked the idea behind the Farseer and Warseer HQs, don't get me wrong Eldritch storm and mind war are cool, but I look at some powers others have *cough* Njal *cough* and I'm just sat there like 'you bitch'... I want awesome powers of death and doom, I'm Eldar why don't we get death and doom powers?
 

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Answer to that question is easy.

Love for SW is off the scale; therefore the codex gets bummed to high heaven.

Simples.
 

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Ancient Relic
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but yeah this thread has gone completely off the rails here, I don't know why it got into a massive discussion about Dakka and Choppa'. But if it is off the rails I might as well go off some more rails too. I foudn a thread earlier by Sir_m1ke making a 5th ed Eldar codex and I liked the idea behind the Farseer and Warseer HQs, don't get me wrong Eldritch storm and mind war are cool, but I look at some powers others have *cough* Njal *cough* and I'm just sat there like 'you bitch'... I want awesome powers of death and doom, I'm Eldar why don't we get death and doom powers?
So you want eldrad to not work for 3 turns if you go second and not be able to use his special powers from the vehicle he is in? Fine. Njal is poor enough unless you are a very good player, paying almost 250pts for a model with no invulnerable save and 2 wounds is not my idea of a great unit.
 

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Discussion Starter #173 (Edited)
not saying Njal is better than Eldrad, Eldrad pwns all the same, but I mean like to have moer flavour, those roll a D3+ turn number powers Njal gets are pretty cool, and not too sure about the chaos book not looked at it in a while, but the basic SM 'dex has like close to a dozen powers not sure how many the BA or normal Run priests get. But yeah mainly just more flavour and such than to different powers, like I said sir_m1ke did one a while back that had tons more powers, and more effective, powerful powers, and be the true master psyker race that they are.

this is mainly a wishlisting post here, like I look at the SW run priest powers and the GK liby powers and they are all pretty cool, yeah the Eldar powers are pretty cool too, and I'm not saying I just want copy/paste powers from the space marines. mainly just want more flavour and options behind the master psykers of the galaxy.
 

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I agree with you there. Eldar need more psychic powers, they are supposed to be the ultimate psychic power. But, that is a problem with most races. Nearly all races are lacking in their flavour, but that is GW's fault not the fault of Space Wolf players. And yeah, Njal is a piece of shit from what I've seen.
 

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And yeah, Njal is a piece of shit from what I've seen.
This is amusing to me.

Does anyone else remember the QQfest over Njal's rumored rules back before the Space Wolf Codex came out (the accurate ones, not the massively exaggerated rumors I mean)? A few especially shitty tournaments were considering banning him before the book even came out. Funny how opinions can change so drastically. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #176 (Edited)
aye Space Wolf players are just fanatical metal vikings :laugh: but yeah I think Njals that typical awesome idea they have in the office that is then poorly executed in the book and shows it in the game, much like Triarch preatorians and the like.

it's a shame really, I suppose like everything else they strive to make them decent in the game (what's the point of putting them in the book otherwise) but theres just that 'one' thing that puts people off using the unit, whether it be points to stats or what not.
 
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