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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay yet another question folks:

I have a unit of Wolf Guard which can take a Landraider as a dedicated transport. This unit will be led by a Wolf Priest equipped with Saga of The Hunter which gives the stealth rule and outflank rule. This then confers to the unit and the transport right?

Meaning i can outflank the wolf guard + wolf priest + land raider onto the board?

Is this legal?
 

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Okay yet another question folks:

I have a unit of Wolf Guard which can take a Landraider as a dedicated transport. This unit will be led by a Wolf Priest equipped with Saga of The Hunter which gives the stealth rule and outflank rule. This then confers to the unit and the transport right?

Meaning i can outflank the wolf guard + wolf priest + land raider onto the board?

Is this legal?
No.

Saga of the Hunter can only be used with Infantry. (Codex: Space Wolves pg.64)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
well the wolf priest and wolf guard are infantry. it states too that it gives the stealth and outflank rules. outflank states you can outflank in a dedicated transport.? What have i missed?
 

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Wolf Priest is a unit unto itself until it is joined to another unit. The joining is done at Deployment, when the Priest is put into Reserves to Outflank. If he is in reserves using his special rules the squad (which does not have the special rules) cannot be joined by him. They must both be in Reserve using their own special rules for them to be together at Deployment.

Plus the Wolf Priest himself has no way of gaining a Dedidcated Transport. So it could not be used to Outflank anyway.
 

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Wolf Priest is a unit unto itself until it is joined to another unit. The joining is done at Deployment, when the Priest is put into Reserves to Outflank. If he is in reserves using his special rules the squad (which does not have the special rules) cannot be joined by him. They must both be in Reserve using their own special rules for them to be together at Deployment.

Plus the Wolf Priest himself has no way of gaining a Dedidcated Transport. So it could not be used to Outflank anyway.
Thats what i would have thought too, but people claim that its legal to attach a Warboss to a unit of Kommandos to outflank with him, then split him from the unit if he is on a bike.

Im really unsure on the answer, but purely for RAI reasons id say that both the unit and the IC would need the outflank ability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So in other words, the unit itself must have access to the outflank rule plus have its own dedicated transport for this to work, right?

If the above is the case, can a wolf priest or other character join and outflank with the unit and the transport?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That one guy has the ability to Outflank, not his unit.

Aramoro
but certain characters confer their abilities to the unit he joins do they not?
 

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Thats what i would have thought too, but people claim that its legal to attach a Warboss to a unit of Kommandos to outflank with him, then split him from the unit if he is on a bike.
The crux of that issue is the special rules for Snikrot. A normal situation of having the Scouts USR is clear since the unit loses Scouts if joined by an IC without it (it has an "*"). Snikrot's special rule is not classified as a USR as such so it is debatable whether it is lost or not. It isn't even classified as a special form of Outflanking like the Wolf Scout's rules.

What is clear though is that the warboss cannot leave the unit o the turn they arrive from Reserves (see BRB FAQ).

Geneticdeviant, the Saga says the Character has the ability to Outflank nothing at all about conferring it to a unit he joins.
 

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hmm i might be wrong but if you cant deploy IC with units then that would mean that all IC have to start out of uints?
and buy the way if u look at the perparing reserves on pg.94 in the mini rule book it clearly states thai IC can join units in reserves you just have to tell your opponet.
 

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SM FAQ
"Q: If an Independent Character is going to begin a game
joined to a unit when should this be done? (p48)
A: You should nominate which Independent Characters are
joining units at the start of deployment before you place
any units on the board. Note that this should be done
before you nominate which units are being held in
Reserve, Deep Strike or are Outflanking etc."
 

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hmm i might be wrong but if you cant deploy IC with units then that would mean that all IC have to start out of uints?
and buy the way if u look at the perparing reserves on pg.94 in the mini rule book it clearly states thai IC can join units in reserves you just have to tell your opponet.
Yes characters can be Deployed with units and held in Reserve with units. They cannot, however, be joined to units if using a special type of Reserve/Deployment like Outflank, Deep Strike or Infiltrate that the unit doesn't already have as well.

THAT'S what I said.
 

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hmm its funny that you brought that up because well it dose say IC and units they join cant use each others powers, there are so many cases were that isnt true like stealth and stubborn according to the rules you lose those powers when u join a unit but in fact you dont a faq solved stealth and because rules as writ you always get stubborn, and with outflank their are to reasons why it dose apply. 1st- the space wolf FAQ says that the wolf priest can outflank with scouts and yes i know they have infiltrate but any time they use it it becomes behind enemy lines but becuse of the IC it becomes normal outflank? hmm well that would mean that the wolf priest gives them that power. 2nd- outflank in its self is normaly not the power that units get its infiltrate or scout, but the saga dosnt give the IC either of those and it is not a universal speacial rule its a mission speacial rule so in a odd twist the saga changes the mission rules themselfs. well i gess their also the commonsense version that if GW really didnt want you to be able to do so why not have jsut change outflank to infiltrate of scout, its simple the wolf priest was ment to be put in a unit!
 

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Ugh...wall of (badly typed) text... :nono:

Your entire supposition is wrong.

1st Wolf Scouts have a special form of the rule when Outflanking.

2nd The IC having the Saga allows them to Outflank as well. Meaning there is no transferring the rule happening.

3rd The IC doesn't change the unit's special rule, the saga allows him to tag along with them using the rule.
 

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wolf scout have their own speacial outflank rule bit a IC with the saga changes their rule to match he in effect giveing them a rule change. I just went to a tournement and was allowed this rule. the guy running it said it is broken but it does work and he's a very by the book sorta guy. i know i dont spell very good but you can read it and thats what matters.
 

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Actually no...that's not all that matters. Being clear in your speech is often essential for a rules discussion.

:rtfm:

As always, the Usual Forum Rules Apply, with special emphasis on the post quality guidelines. Nobody is going to take your questions (or your answers) seriously if ‘u tak liek ths lol kthx!’ So 'plz dnt tak liek a fuktard, k ppl?’ See, already I take myself much less seriously. In fact, I may need a bath, but I digress... Besides posting coherently, it’s very important to be polite, and not an asshole. Being an asshole is counterproductive and can often derail threads and end in uncomfortable scoldings and bannings. But there’s some more specific stuff for this forum.
The rules...read them, please. :victory:

Anyway, The Scouts rule is still a form of Outflank and the addition of an IC doesn't change that at all.
 

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Wolf Scouts use Scout/Infiltrate to outflank, and once they're doing that they can use Behind Enemy Lines.

A character without Scout or Infiltrate joining them in reserve will stop them outflanking by removing those Universal Special Rules (p74, BRB), and so stop them using Behind Enemy Lines.

A character with Scout or Infiltrate joining them will allow them to choose the outflank reserve option, and so use Behind Enemy Lines.
 

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but the real point was does the saga also apply to the unit. I know its something that should seem like an obvious no, but it’s not that simple. Let me ask you this does a character with stealth also give his unit stealth, yes. I know the rules very well and I also know that in the IC section it does say that characters don’t give rules but they loose them, also in the special rules section it contradicts this by saying that rules that are lost are marked with a *. Since everyone’s saying this is a rule like any other I ask do you see a * next to the Outflank rule or any special text about IC not giving it to units. I’m just having a debate like everyone else so you can nitpick me all you want but my arguments sound and I will give you an example to boot!

Q: If only some of the models in a unit have the Stealth
special rule, does the whole unit benefit from the +1 cover
save? (p76)
A: Yes. In effect the ones with the Stealth special rule
ensure their colleagues also find good places to hide. (real text from the FAQ)

Mind you this applies to independent characters as well. So let me make a quick change mind you this is an example.

Q: If only some of the models in a unit have the outflank
Special rule, does the whole unit benefit from it.
A: Yes. In effect the ones with the outflank special rule
Ensure their colleagues also find good places to sneak.
 

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The Wolf FAQ:

Q. Can an Independent Character that has joined a Wolf
Scouts pack outflank? (p27)
A. No, unless he has the Saga of the Hunter, or another
special rule, which allows him to outflank.
Strongly suggesting that BOTH unit and IC must have the ability to Outflank to do so.

Outflank Isn't a USR so doesn't abide by the * caveat. It specifically mentions what may Outflank and the only instance mentioned of a unit conferring it to something else ins in a Dedicated Transport.
 
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