[Belthazor Aurellius]

Ok. There's a lot of backstory, so I won't get into it. The basic gist of this thread is to ask, when you're facing a space marine player who has everything in the Ultramarines codex that a fighting company would have, and has enough variables to make each battle look like a different company, and you have perhaps enough to field one strike force composed of many Imperial Fist companies, but not nearly the full strength of a single company... How the heck do you beat him?

He's got a full 100 marine company's worth of minis, I've got maybe 30 marines. We always play on equal points, but with the variables so great, he often gets to tailor his list to whatever I field. If I bring the Land Raider, he fields one and a dev squad with lascannons. If I field my five terminators, he fields five assault termies. He's my brother and we've both played 40k for 9 years. We also don't play that often against each other, as he's a few hours from where I live now, but the next time we battle, I want to have something that will at least give him a run for his money.

My available forces
Force commander (captain or chapter master storm bolter, power weapon)
Chaplain (plasma pistol)
Dreadnought (choice between fist/flamer, missile pod and tl-lc, asscan)
Dreadnought (fixed armament of fist/flamer and tl-lc, extra armor, smoke)
Terminators (small bases, 1 asscan, 5 total)
1 tactical squad (any armament/size, rhino or razorback w/ tl-lc)
1 scout squad (6 minis with sniper rifles, each painted a different chapter color)
1 assault squad (2x plasma pistol, 1 power weapon, 7 minis total)
1 land speeder (multimelta)
1 Whirlwind
1 Land Raider
2 Vindicators (one oldschool, one new)
Enough marines for two devastator squads

Now, as I understand it, the space marine codex allows you to pretend you're fielding a strike force conglomerate from multiple chapters, perhaps under one chapter's command. Thus, I could purchase Vulkan He'stan, as well as Lysander, use them as such, and just pick which chapter special rule I want for the battle...

Also, I know I have a bit much in the heavy support area. This was because as a Black Templar, I was fielding five 5-man tactical squads with heavy weapons and pumping my elites with them as well. Considering the rules for ATSKNF and unit consolidation made it so I could move towards my enemies while not moving during my movement phase, it made for a beautiful way to play shooty black templars. I quit the army style though, because I think I like the more balanced tactics of codex marines.

Any help on making my army un-tailorable (so it won't matter what he brings, basically), would be welcome, and thanks for your time.

 

[Azezel]

He should not be tailoring his list to fight you. That's extremely poor sportsmanship and you're under no requirement to play him.

Insist that he play with an all-comers list like a gentleman.

As for Vulkan and others: 'counts as'. You use Vulkan's rules, but paint him yellow and he counts as Imperial Fist Dave, or whatever,

 

[Aramoro]

If he wants to play like that write a list, let him tailor away then play a different list as soon as he's got his ready. Tailoring is unsporting and deeply unfair, both lists should be made blind with no knowledge of what the other has.

Aramoro

 

[lokis222]

There is no such thing as untailorable. Sadly. I played a guy like that. We would post lists on the internet before we meet. I would post mine first, and then he would post his. Needless to say, I got slammed. We agreed to not do this, and things went better after that.
An option, in agreement with the above, bring a list to the game, exchange lists, play. No prior knowledge. No prep. No thinking about counters and tactics.

Another option, since you are both vanilla, is borrow some of his gear. I have lent other 'nid players models when they have needed it. It will give you a little more variety. However, with tailoring in mind, ask him to bring a plethora of models, and plan to use only a few. Just to keep the fellow guessing. :biggrin:

 

[Belthazor Aurellius]

Well, since he's my brother, he'd be more likely to play fair if I just told him next time that I'm not going to play unless he makes a list that's general and rounded.

On the subject of rounding out my own force, though, aside from adding two tactical squads and a rhino or razorback, does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Azezel]

I'm no expert, but instinct says adding some plasma cannons to your list would help - either on the Devs or Dreads.

 

[Belthazor Aurellius]

Hmm. I have two plasma cannons so far, but I could probably get more...

 

[Azrell]

plasmas aren't that awesome, for devs id run HBs or LCs. The only army plasmas work well agents are nids or swarm armies so when you are off target they will still hit something.

LCs do well for taking down vehics, and 4 HBs take down squads by force of numbers (12 shots!), but they can also glance a rhino or razorback to death as well.

Buy yeah i also play with a little brother and being that he plays IG, and i know what he has its hard not to tailor your army when you play. If you have some extra money buy some new figs or check at your local store for someone selling some old ones and don't tell him about them until your setting up pulling them out for deployment.

Times are ruff and i bit if you check around where people pay you can find someone who will sell stuff they don't want for cheap. I just literally got half the dark angel cheaper for less than 300$ because a guy needed to make rent. Or trade alot of people like some of the older figs, like you vind and might trade you for some thing new.

With your termis GW sells the big bases for like 5$ for 5 of them if your interested in getting them set up right, i have a ton of the old ones and most i just glued the little base strait onto the big one.

 

[Belthazor Aurellius]

I'd rather replace the old termies altogether with a squad of Mr. T(hammer)s, with perhaps a few Edward (Scissorhands) to round things out.

On the subject of trading/selling, I have a small selection of SoB and Chaos that are unpainted, perhaps I'll find someone to buy a Chaos LR, or an Immolator...

 

[dudejmass]

Also you could have a few more tactical squads because with the newest rules, they are the only ones that can capture objectives. Also since he can know which figurines you will use maybe you can add a few suprises in the way of deep strike modules to keep him guessing were you're troops will appear. Also as a last resort change armies or go play against someone that has as many troops as you