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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One of my friends and I are new to 40k, he's doing eldar and I'm doing the Ultramarines 5th company. After borrowing his codex one day, I found out that the eldar have a rediculous amount of high powered attacks. Ex: "This tank has 3 heavy weapons on it with 3 blasts and 15 shooting attacks."

During one of our first practice battles (10 marines vs 10 dire avengers) I tried hiding in cover and shooting from a distance. It worked to an extent, but my marines ended taking more damage and not dealing nearly enough (especially considering my rolling that day was very bad.) We ended up tying a lot... which worried me. If his Avengers match my marines, what could I hope to do against his shootier units?? The only strength I had on him was my awe-inspiring 3+ armour save.

I had a plan... How would a squad of 5 assualt termies with thunder hammers and storm shields do against banshees? I planned to put them into a landraider and blast through his units, because thunderhammers cause units that aren't destroyed (or that don't flee) in the next combat phase to have 1 initiative, possible allowing another text almost immediatly.

Another tactic I had was to use cover saves to my advantage, to save my troops from his bright lances. Does hiding in cover actually work well? Or should I be more aggresive in attacking him? Eldar seem very troubling to battle against, especially since in a 500 point game, he has 1 or 2 mechs and several troops, leaving me with just 20 marines and a captain. While I should not underestimate my marines, I'm worried about the no-doubt outrageous attacks he will get on my troops. Any tips?
 

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Your marines have better armor saves against most of what he can toss at you than the cover save they get if you keep them hidden. Also, his brightlances are a greather threat to vehicles and not troops.

Remember that Eldar have lousy armor and Toughness. You may want to invest in a few Havoc launchers for your rhinos. Drive, get out, rapid fire them to bits.

At 500 points, he can't be able to afford too much mech. With your cheap rhinos you may actually get the advantage in mobility.
 

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At 500 points you wont have too much mech, and neither will he. IMO if you want to shhot him to bits get a MoTF with a conversion beamer to lay down heavy fire and either 1 tactical and 1 scout squad or 2 tactical squads. The bonus with the scouts is that since they are cheaper you could probably get a rhino or razorback for your tactical squad and still have a decent unit to hold your objective with. With 2 tacticals you should be able to take most of the damage with your 3+ saves. I would go for a ML in each squad and a flamer and a plasmagun so you can handle anything he throws at you. If you play an objective game that gives you 4 scoring units if you combat squad and the ability to take out his armour and then blast his troops apart.

Hope this helps :eek:k:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The new Space marines codex really bumped up the prices of things, the captain costing 100 points as it is. My captain costs 130 points, having a plasma pistol and a lightning claw (giving an extra pistol attack and having nice blasting power of its own, and re-rolling wounds.) My army is 2 tactical squads of 10, both squads with flamers and missiles. My army is 5 pts over price for a rhino...

I don't think space marine tanks get havoc missiles, thats Chaos I believe. However, all my tanks are decked with storm bolters.

I was planning to stay back and blast his mechs with krak missiles from a distance, then close in after they're all gone.
The plan with the scouts sounds good though...having heavy bolter with hellfire shells rocks. I was planning to include my Whirlwind in the army later, but has anyone ever had issues with them who has played with (or against) them?

As for a devastator squad, my squad has a missile launcher, 2 heavy bolters, and a plasma cannon, making their minimum range 36 inches. Staying versatile with a missile launcher (kills infantry and rocks vehicles) and plasma cannons with their strength 7 AP 2 blast (wounds all his models on 2+, no armour saves!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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The new Space marines codex really bumped up the prices of things, the captain costing 100 points as it is. My captain costs 130 points, having a plasma pistol and a lightning claw (giving an extra pistol attack and having nice blasting power of its own, and re-rolling wounds.) My army is 2 tactical squads of 10, both squads with flamers and missiles. My army is 5 pts over price for a rhino...

I don't think space marine tanks get havoc missiles, thats Chaos I believe. However, all my tanks are decked with storm bolters.

I was planning to stay back and blast his mechs with krak missiles from a distance, then close in after they're all gone.
The plan with the scouts sounds good though...having heavy bolter with hellfire shells rocks. I was planning to include my Whirlwind in the army later, but has anyone ever had issues with them who has played with (or against) them?

As for a devastator squad, my squad has a missile launcher, 2 heavy bolters, and a plasma cannon, making their minimum range 36 inches. Staying versatile with a missile launcher (kills infantry and rocks vehicles) and plasma cannons with their strength 7 AP 2 blast (wounds all his models on 2+, no armour saves!)
i thought units with only one lightning claw do not get the extra attack bonus for having two CC weapons? something in the BRB said that about PF and TH.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i thought units with only one lightning claw do not get the extra attack bonus for having two CC weapons? something in the BRB said that about PF and TH.
You would be right, but I believe I still get the re-roll a wound bonus, yes?

Another question, my assualt marines are currently upgraded with:
Melta Bombs, 2 plasma pistols (one with the sergeant), 1 power-axe (sergeant) and a jump-pack chaplain would be attatched to the squad. Would I be spending too many points on them, being a 265 point combo? I think that adding the chaplain (his power weapon, extra attacks and re-rolling all misses for the squad) would really boost the squads damage potential, giving the squad 20 attacks after an assualt and re-rolling all missing attacks.
 

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sternguard are the way to go for SM, no matter who you are up against, their ammunitions can be useful against. deveastators with lascannons and heavy bolters are nice for anti eldar. just try and field lots of heavy bolters, Str 5 AP 4 wont allow the puny elday any saves and with their sad T3, you will wound on 3+
 

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sounds like you need a dreadnought or two lol. or rhinos, to keep you safe from the banshees.

some sternguard are fun too, give 'em a heavy flamer and stick them in a rhino...that will solve your problems until your opponent starts fielding fire dragons who, thankfully, have a pretty short range if not in a serpent.

my other advice is to play slightly larger games. unit on unit combat really isn't representative of the fun you can have with a codex; synergy is kind of hard to achieve at such at low points value :)

soon enough you'll also realize that the vanilla marines codex (generally) performs better when meched up.
 

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sternguard are the way to go for SM, no matter who you are up against, their ammunitions can be useful against. deveastators with lascannons and heavy bolters are nice for anti eldar. just try and field lots of heavy bolters, Str 5 AP 4 wont allow the puny elday any saves and with their sad T3, you will wound on 3+
Actually... you would be wounding on a 2+ as 99% of eldar have toughness 3. Plus the ap 4 means only cover saves and envon saves to worry about.

As an Eldar and SM player, I like to think I know my weaknesses... and an Eldar weakness is definitely the lack of toughness and armor. It is really hard to out shoot an eldar army, but my best suggestion is really focus on target priority with your own shooting.

Guardians and Dire Avengers have short range weapons at 12" and 18" respectively, so concentrate your fire on the guns that can take you out prior to then.

A SM 3+ armor save and a 4+ cover save make it a real hard time to really take them down.

Eldar really work best when they have units that complement each other. If you take away the one, the other unit will fall easily.

I have been a bit all over the place with my retort... but just note that eldar aren't invincible, just can seem like it at times.

Good Hunting
 

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I'd highly recommend a whirwind, place it somewhere where your opponent cant see it and then they have to divert a lot of their army to taking out 1 tank while the rest of your army blasts them to pieces. After you take out the vehicles all you have to deal with a T3 spess elfs who are perfect targets for your bolters. A dread would also come in handy to lock enemy units in CC and whittle them down.
 

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Beating Eldar can vary wildly between players - if the Eldar player knows what he's doing, and Mechs up and builds his list properly, I think Vanilla marines are always going to struggle. However if he doesn't know what he's doing, you'll have a very easy time winning, because Eldar do not tolerate slack play in the same was as other armies.

What you take will vary wildly based on what he takes. If he's got several Falcons/Prisms/Serpents then Dev squads with 4x Missile Launchers would serve you well, as would a Pred with Auto/Lascannon. If however he's got infantry that don't spend the entire game in transports, then a Whirlwind/Dakka Pred would be more useful.

The Battleforce certainly won't give you any problems - Guardians suck, Avengers only kill things when there's 10 of them, and a single war walker with 2 different weapons is going to do very little.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
With 1000 points, I plan to include:

Captain with Lightningclaw and Plasma pistol- 130 pts

10 tactical marines with missile launcher and flamer- 170 pts

10 tactical marines with missile launcher and flamer- 170 pts

Rhino with stormbolter- 45 pts

5 devastators with 2 missile launchers and 2 heavy bolters and powerfist- 175 pts

Razorback with heavy bolter and storm bolter- 50 pts

Whirlwind with storm bolter- 95 pts

5 Sternguard Vets with power fist and combi-plasma- 155 pts

That loadout leaves me with 990 pts, giving me 10 points of upgrades to give out frivolously. I already have all these models, I just need to finish painting some of them.
 

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I would personally scrape some points from somewhere and make the Devs 10 men strong, so you can combat squad with 2x Launchers in one and 2x Bolters in another. Apart from that it looks fine! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Has anybody got experience using landspeeder storms? I personally think that it'd be an awesome transport for scouts, being open-topped (allowing all scouts to shoot and assualt as soon as they dis-embarked.)
I planned to use one in my new 500 point plan as soon as my buddy finally gets to finishing his models (which sadly does not appear to be soon...)
I haven't read about anybody using them, are they not usefull for what they do?
 

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I use a Storm with a Multi Melta in my Scout army. The ideal use for them is as backup for a better assault unit - so when you win the combat then the enemy takes leadership on an additional -2. In my case the 5 Scouts with a Powerfist Sergeant from the Storm generally attacks the same target as Shrike, a Chaplain and 10 Assault Marines with a Power Fist sergeant. I'll generally win the combat by at least 3 anyway, so Leadership tests on -5, thanks very much! :)

Just don't leave them isolated - they'll get shot down very quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
In my next game (500 pts, just beggining) I am going to include:

Captain with Lightningclaw and Plasma Pistol- 130 pts

10 Tactical Marines- 170 pts

5 Scouts with bolters and heavy bolter- 85 pts

Rhino with Stormbolter- 45 pts

Landspeeder Storm with Heavy Bolter- 50 pts

The plan: Slap the Tactical Marines in the rhino and place them on an objective (or other usefull position), and have the landspeeder storm give fire support to the marines and the captain with their hellfire shells. The captain will have to be foot-sloggin' his way across the battlefield, but I intend to get him stuck into CC with the enemy commander (or other weaker units). Other than that, the Missile launcher should take care of other vehicle opposition. If the marines get in trouble, I will use the rhino as a screen to allow the marines to fall back safely, while the rhino attacks with its stormbolter.
 

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So, the Captain is just going to walk on his own across the board? Just one Missile and a failed Invul save will be the death of him. Always try to hide your HQ's in a squad if you can.

If we are still talking Eldar here, then you can expect your vehicle opposition to be a lot more dangerous than just about anything in that 500 pt list.

In fact, I'd just be happy he wasn't throwing out some Wraithlords at the 500 point level. Talk about trouble for your list.

Actually, since we're planning ahead like this, could you say what kind of things the Eldar player tends to run at this point level?
 

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The Librarian should be your go to HQ choice in just about any marine army. Null Zone and the Hood for so cheap is awesome.

Elfdar can be fast and tricksy, but hit them hard enough and they go down fine. Missile Launchers and Autocannons are your friends for taking down his transports, while bolters and flamers kill off his wussy T3 infantry.
 

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I agree with chumbalaya I'd go with a librarian for my HQ, he is a bit of a tank for his points value.

Other than that seems solid,though I'd also give speical weapons to my tactical squads and personally I wouldnt go for the scouts and the storm. I'd go for a predator autocannon lascannon take down infantry and anything av.
 
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