[Siege]

So I was considering my options for Apocalypse games and I was wondering if I could ally my Tau with some Space Marines. I know technically anything goes but I generally like to keep it kinda fluffy.

Is it that big of a stretch to imagine renegade Marines who have lost all faith in the Imperium, fighting for the Tau cause rather than turning to the evils of Chaos?

Me and my gaming buddies share our books between us so I don't have the Apoc rulebook handy to have a look at the allies thing, but what do you guys think about such an alliance?

 

[thomas2]

As a temporary alliance between Space Marines and Tau, that is very fluffy, as Imperials will often consider Tau the lesser of 2/3/4/5 evils, and will fight with them most often of xenos as they are the only ones to openly and fully negotiate, but regarding renegade Space Marines turning to Tau this is less likely, but not at all impossible. The main opposition to this is most of the Imperium endures massive anti-alien propaganda,but not all, and perhaps a chapter declared traitors may see joining the Tau the best way to survive without worshipping Chaos, once again lesser of two evils.

 

[DrakeBluedragon]

Well...if marines will betray the imperium for psychotic demons, y not the tau?

 

[Silb]

Well...if marines will betray the imperium for psychotic demons, y not the tau?

psychotic demons are cool; plus they give you a choice of either sex, physical strength, magic/knowledge, and disease. the tau make you a combination of a hippie and a communist. The first is something a marine would never be. Plus, most marines turn to chaos to become more powerful and break away from the control of the imperium. the ethereals are just as controlling as the imperium and don't really give you that much power (i'd prefer a daemon sword and ancient magical powers over a pulse rifle and some fancy technology any day). Also, the Tau empire is very small compared to the imperium, while chaos has unlimited hordes of demons and has massive influence. Even a marine's propoganda filled head can do the math when comparing the size of the imperium's armies to the limitless hordes of demons, mutants, heretics, and marines that chaos has.

I don't think renegade marines would join the tau because marines almost always lose faith in the imperium because of an outside influence, like the VERY powerful and persuasive powers of chaos (the tau are not nearly that persuasive). If they lose faith in the imperium for another reason it's usually because they lose faith in the ecclesiarchy, not the emperor. Therefore, they become rogue and have no allies. If they lose faith in the emperor and there is no outside influence, they no longer hate chaos and therefore have no problem with joining chaos.

In short, nearly everything that would make a large number of marines turn to chaos is something the tau don't have. If you guys think I'm wrong, be my guest and make a tau-allied marine force.

 

[angels of fire]

Silb makes a very good point and is totally right I just don't think Tau have that much influence on the space marines or the 40k universe. Plus the Dark Angels would never do that fluff wise as I assume you were going to ally your two armys?

 

[Elchimpster]

You know, when IG become auxila of the Tau Empire (Gue'la), they become able to be hit on a 4+.

I reckon if SM became Super Gue'La...they would be hittable on a 4+ too.
:so_happy:

 

[thomas2]

You know, when IG become auxila of the Tau Empire (Gue'la), they become able to be hit on a 4+.

I reckon if SM became Super Gue'La...they would be hittable on a 4+ too.
:so_happy:

Its Imperial troops hit them on 3+, just so you know.

 

[Elchimpster]

Its Imperial troops hit them on 3+, just so you know.

You're right.
So I figure if Astartes turned "To The Greater Good" they should be able to be hit by imperials on a 3+ too.

 

[Siege]

Nah I wouldn't use my Dark Angels, I know that would never work as far as fluff goes.

 

[Al Capeone]

that is perfect

 

[Siege]

What do you mean Al Capeone?

I've been trying to work on some back story for this alliance but I must admit it isn't going so well. I originally thought that Space Marines that were somehow left stranded when the Imperium withdrew it's forces from the Damocles Gulf would have no options other than join the Tau or perish, but loyal Space Marines would choose death over heresy.

Than I was thinking Marines who had been declared traitors ran into a severe warp storm and were left crashed and stranded on a Tau planet. These Marines were witness to some horrific act at the hands of the Imperium, which caused them to turn renegade in the first place, so they no longer have any loyalty to the Emperor. If they're low on supplies and surrounded by Fire Warriors, would they really choose to die for something they no longer believe in?

 

[Silb]

Than I was thinking Marines who had been declared traitors ran into a severe warp storm and were left crashed and stranded on a Tau planet. These Marines were witness to some horrific act at the hands of the Imperium, which caused them to turn renegade in the first place, so they no longer have any loyalty to the Emperor. If they're low on supplies and surrounded by Fire Warriors, would they really choose to die for something they no longer believe in?

If those marines joined the tau they wouldn't be fighting for the greater good. They would be fighting for the chance to escape with their lives. If you do use that backstory, you should make sure that the tau force is larger than the marine force (by that I mean the tau force should take up a larger points cost) to represent the tau keeping an eye on the marines. Also, something like that seems unlikely because marines, even rogue ones, have been trained and essentially brainwashed to highly distrust xenos and in some cases even despise them. They are willing to make alliances, but those are only temporary alliances and no marine; loyalist, rogue, or chaos, would truly adopt the ideal of the greater good. At the most, they would either ally with a tau force to use them as pawns or ally with the tau until they get a chance to run away. As I said in my last post, if you disagree with me then feel free to make a tau-allied marine army.

 

[Elchimpster]

Than I was thinking Marines who had been declared traitors ran into a severe warp storm and were left crashed and stranded on a Tau planet. These Marines were witness to some horrific act at the hands of the Imperium, which caused them to turn renegade in the first place, so they no longer have any loyalty to the Emperor. If they're low on supplies and surrounded by Fire Warriors, would they really choose to die for something they no longer believe in?

1. Astartes who are declared Traitors usually fall in to two categories: go totally rogue (usually Chaos SM after that), or try and redeem themselves.

2. Horrific act? Astartes are bred for horrific acts. It's what they do. What's the worst that can happen? Genocide? Ask the Ultramarines and Inquisitor Kryptmann about that. It happens regularly and Astartes are usually involved.

You've got to understand the psychology of Astartes: they are psycho-indoctrinated in the beginning to be unbelievably loyal and steadfast...loyal unto death...literally. Their lives are spent in constant ritual to reinforce this.

To lose their faith in the emperor, they would have to experience something horrific, usually directed at something they hold more dear than humanity...most likely themselves or their Chapter. Even inquisitor go against Chapters of Space Marines exceedingly rarely because they are such a valuable tool, and only go after them when things are already deeply wrong: mutation, no longer tithing geneseed/ hubris, heresy, etc. (if anything they are ripe for the predations of Chaos, feeding on their greed, hubris, pride or rage.)

"The Greater Good" is a fine idea, but the Astartes already believe in the greater good of wiping the Xenos out...period. "For the greater good OF HUMANITY"

Surrounded by Firewarriors, out of ammo, Astartes will charge and throw rocks before surrendering. They don't know the word "surrender". The purpose of "surrender" is to save their lives, and their lives are already bound by psycho-indoctrination, oath and creed to die in battle in service to the emperor.

Sorry man, while the Tau would easily be the lesser of two evils in a firefight against say Tyranids, or Necrons, or Chaos...I can honestly say they would NEVER...EVER...simply join the xenos and their crusade for the "greater good". Not a snowball's chance in hell.

As an aside, I like the idea, even if it would never work, it's imaginative and I dig it. It's just that it is likely to work as a Tyranid/ Necron Hybrid or Eldar joining the Orcs. Please don't take my opinion as an attack or anything, you've done great in coming up with something original. Cool?

 

[Silb]

I agree with everything elchimpster just said.

 

[Siege]

Yeah, all very good points, I agree it isn't going to work. It was just an idea I was messing with, thanks for the responses.