[Orochi]

And how does it balance against other (recent) codices like Eldar? As a speculative guess?

 

[MidnightSun]

I imagine it'll hold it's own (although it doesn't have the raw power of the Scatpack or the Wraithknight in any one unit, it can totally do an number on such things with Grav Cents + Tiggy or something as well as having a bunch of unique tricks to use itself that rely more on fancy rules than on raw killiness) but I've had less than two days to play with it so theory's all I can do thus far.

 

[Sethis]

My only question before deciding whether to actually try to play a game with my Raven Guard - are the vehicles now Shrouded as well, or is it just infantry only? And have they also cut our Jump Pack benefits? Scout? Infiltrate?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Creon]

Because one turn of Shrouded (you can't even pick which turn, it has to be first) and +1 to the roll to see if Night Fight happens is shit compared to army-wide Hit and Run/Skilled Rider/Str5 Hammer of Wrath/re-roll Run, or +1 Feel No Pain on the whole army and IWND on all vehicles, or two turns of your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit with shooting and two turns of your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit in melee with your core infantry units getting flat re-rolls, or all your Devastators getting Tank Hunters and your entire army re-rolling 1s to hit with Bolt weapons including Special Ammo.

For a free benefit, Shrouded on turn 1 is a solid benefit especially if it comes with Night Fight, but given that you give up other Chapter Tactics to use it, I don't think it's good at all.

Also Shrike is one of the worse Special Characters. Not the worst, sure, but nothing particularly special in my view.

I'm a fan of always using the Jump move in both movement and assault phase. Teh shrouded is good, the packs are what I want to Raven guard for.

 

[Achaylus72]

Um...... is someone missing there village idiot?

Charming.

 

[MidnightSun]

I'm a fan of always using the Jump move in both movement and assault phase. Teh shrouded is good, the packs are what I want to Raven guard for.

The thing is, Assault Marines are still kind of terrible all told, and Vanguard can re-roll their charge distances anyway so all you're really getting is the Str4 Shred Hammer of Wrath. That's not inconsequential, but I don't think it's really enough to make up for the deficiences of Assault Marines and probably isn't as strong as other Chapter Tactics on Vanguard - let alone the consideration that of all the Chapter Tactics, Raven Guard is the only one that doesn't affect your whole army.

I'd like them a lot more if the Shrouded wasn't so bloody conditional.

 

[tu_shan82]

if I had of written the codex I would have given the RG H+R but only on their jump infantry and made camo netting, IG style, an option on RG vehicles on top of what they got in the codex.

 

[MidnightSun]

I'd have given Raven Guard re-rolling reserves, Outflank, and made Winged Deliverance the ability to assault on the turn you arrive from Reserves as long as you didn't Deep Strike.

I think it's ridiculous that they're 'the sneaky Marines', because Marines aren't sneaky - their Scouts are, but Power Armour makes a noise like an idling V8 and that's just standing still. You might be able to sneak up on a half-deaf Ork sleeping off a hangover, but not much else.

 

[Orochi]

not to mention they're what... 8ft tall on average?

 

[ntaw]

^ HH books make them out to be plenty sneaky. Were 30k suits less noisy perhaps?

 

[MidnightSun]

No, just poorly written.

 

[ntaw]

On the topic of the new SM codex, I'm not seeing anything that allows bike units to be taken as troops.

EDIT: just found it in the bike entry, and it now states 'any independent character with the SM faction' unlocks them as troops. FOC swaps remain in 7th!

 

[tu_shan82]

well that gives me hope BA will get ass marines as troops again in A YEAR AND A HALF when they get their next codex. Seems like one of my armies is always the test bed. They shoul write all the marine books together, even if they release them months apart

 

[Asamodai]

I'd have given Raven Guard re-rolling reserves, Outflank, and made Winged Deliverance the ability to assault on the turn you arrive from Reserves as long as you didn't Deep Strike.

I think it's ridiculous that they're 'the sneaky Marines', because Marines aren't sneaky - their Scouts are, but Power Armour makes a noise like an idling V8 and that's just standing still. You might be able to sneak up on a half-deaf Ork sleeping off a hangover, but not much else.

I think the idea that Raven Guard are 'stealthy' is a bit of a misconception. You're right, you can't sneak up on someone wearing power armour.

I see Raven Guard more as masters of guerrilla tactics, ambushes, hit and run attacks etc. more than straight up stealth.

Plus Corax and I believe some others have the ability to make people not notice them even in plain sight. I don't know if that's a skill that has survived 10,000 years.

 

[ntaw]

well that gives me hope BA will get ass marines as troops again in A YEAR AND A HALF when they get their next codex.

*shrug* my BA are playing better out of this Codex than ever before (and I came back into the game during the glory days of the razorback rush in 5th). Assault marines can stay FA for all I care, what will push me over the edge is buying a new book every two years.

There's always the Fleshtearer detachment from the Shield of Baal book if you need to up your FA slots.

 

[tu_shan82]

*shrug* my BA are playing better out of this Codex than ever before (and I came back into the game during the glory days of the razorback rush in 5th). Assault marines can stay FA for all I care, what will push me over the edge is buying a new book every two years.

There's always the Fleshtearer detachment from the Shield of Baal book if you need to up your FA slots.

True, but the reason I want a new codex despite having received on just six months ago is that I want my units to be on a par with the new SM book, furiosos shouldn't have a lower number of attacks than regular vanilla dreads, our demi company is less flexible and lacks obj secured and I would like WS/BS 4 scouts, ass marines as troops again would just be a bonus. I wouldn't have wanted these things if the vanillas hadn't gotten them with this release, it's lik when DA ere stuck with 4++, combat only storm shields when everyone else got 3++ equivalents. The solution to this would be the design studio writing all the marine codexes at once, even if they released them a few months apart.

 

[MidnightSun]

I think the idea that Raven Guard are 'stealthy' is a bit of a misconception. You're right, you can't sneak up on someone wearing power armour.

I see Raven Guard more as masters of guerrilla tactics, ambushes, hit and run attacks etc. more than straight up stealth.

I think you're bang on for their warfare methods, but that's not how GW are writing them and that's the problem.

Plus Corax and I believe some others have the ability to make people not notice them even in plain sight. I don't know if that's a skill that has survived 10,000 years.

Smells like an inconsistent plot device to me.

 

[Firewolf]

Space Wolves only get 2 detachments. I know that we have Champs of Fenris and the box set formations, but that means another £60+ to get more. I would like more formations in 1 book, but thems the breaks of not playing Codex marines.