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Inquisitor
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Discussion Starter #1
Can someone please find where it states that Space Marine Terminators are able to assualt after using Heavy/Rapid Fire weapons, and that they are stationary for the purposes of shooting Rapid Fire weapons.

I cant find anything in the BRB and the only mention in Codex Space Marines that I can find is ".., Space Marines in Terminator armour are capable of moving and firing with heavy weapons." Theres no mention of still being able to assualt and no mention of rapid fire weapons!! Its clearly stated on page 86 of the Chaos Codex but again I cant find anything for Imperial Termies!! HELP!!!

:ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2:
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
 

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Bleh
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Can someone please find where it states that Space Marine Terminators are able to assualt after using Heavy/Rapid Fire weapons, and that they are stationary for the purposes of shooting Rapid Fire weapons.

I cant find anything in the BRB and the only mention in Codex Space Marines that I can find is ".., Space Marines in Terminator armour are capable of moving and firing with heavy weapons." Theres no mention of still being able to assualt and no mention of rapid fire weapons!! Its clearly stated on page 86 of the Chaos Codex but again I cant find anything for Imperial Termies!! HELP!!!

:ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2: :ireful2:
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
No... I cant find anything either. Checked my SM codex and Rulebook. Nothing. Arent they counted as having slow and purposeful?
 

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It's a mistake. A favorite of "Silly RAW" purists is that terminators don't have terminator armour listed in their equipment. They therefore can't move and fire heavy weapons, don't have invulnerable saves and so on.

It's generally accepted that terminators are supposed to always count as stationary. They aren't slow and purposeful though, as they don't have the rule.
 

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Bleh
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It's a mistake. A favorite of "Silly RAW" purists is that terminators don't have terminator armour listed in their equipment. They therefore can't move and fire heavy weapons, don't have invulnerable saves and so on.

It's generally accepted that terminators are supposed to always count as stationary. They aren't slow and purposeful though, as they don't have the rule.
Ah right thanks. Well. We know what GW are gonna change in the next ed.
 

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Strictly speaking Terminators can assault after firing heavy weapons but not rapid weapons (this is kinda silly, but so too is rapid firing being 12" instead of half range imo). I recall a great and lengthy discussion of this on another 40k forum. That said the BT/DA and Chaos Marines Codex have been released since and perhaps some FAQ I'm unaware of that could have helped clear this up.

A favorite of "Silly RAW" purists is that terminators don't have terminator armour listed in their equipment. They therefore can't move and fire heavy weapons, don't have invulnerable saves and so on.
Never heard that one before. Glad you included the word "Silly". :p
 

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Inquisitor
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Discussion Starter #8
They can fire rapid fire weapons if they take any of the "Combi" weapons.. one shot at the combi and all the rest are with the Bolter side of the combi weapon.

Believe me I know the idea of "general believed" but the deal is we always have these arguements about rules and what is strict RAW and RAI but here is an instance where the rules never say that this is something that can be done. It really dis heartnens me that this is something that GW could let slip through the cracks. They clearly outlined in the Chaos codexes description of Terminator armour but the only mention for Imperial Terminators is that they can move and fire heavy weapons. Theres no mention of stable platform, theres no universal rule, theres nothing!

This can be kinda big. Imagine the idea that you cant assualt after shooting the cyclone missle launcher or the assualt cannon anymore!? That isnt even strict rules as written thats just general rules as written. What Im asking for is for people to give me something/anything to point to this being wrong. A FAQ or anything that states that Termies can assualt after shooting heavy or rapid fire weapons.
 

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i checked the marine codex FAQ. RAW, you cant assault after firing a heavy weapon.

and to be honest, i think that might be RAI as well.

it makes sense. the heavy flamer is an assault weapon, the only reason to make it assault 1 is to let the terms assault.

MLs and ACs are Heavy for a reason. You cant assault after firing them, and i'm ok with that to be honest.
 

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Grey Knight Converter
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But other troops use heavy flamers too, so I don't think you can make a judgment based on just because the heavy flamer is an assault weapon thus terminators aren't allowed to assault after firing a heavy weapon.
 

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But other troops use heavy flamers too, so I don't think you can make a judgment based on just because the heavy flamer is an assault weapon thus terminators aren't allowed to assault after firing a heavy weapon.
well, nothing else in the SM codex does, but yes, its not fair to make a judgement based solely on that.

but a) its the rules.
b) it makes sense. the AC is a sit back and churn out thousands of rounds sort of a weapon, a kind of arnie with a massive gun. its the same for the ML. think about the terminators stance, he wouldnt do it moving forward.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
This is the biggest rules snaffu GW has ever done I think. I mean its written clear as day that you can with Chaos termies so its not RAI but it is RAW as its no where else stated that they can... GRRRRRR..

Darn GW!!! :ireful2:
 

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im sure theyre aware of it. if they meant to correct it, they would in the FAQ which was updated recently.

fact is chaos terminators dont use as heavy a weapon as the AC or ML, the reaper doesnt come close.
 

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Last time I checked the Reaper's a S7 AP4 Twin-linked Heavy/2 weapon.

Since the ACs S6 AP4 Heavy/4, after comparing the two I'd say that the Reaper would be just as difficult if not more so to fire than the Assault Cannon (higher strength and a ROF that probably wouldn't be much lower).
 

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p36 of ythe BBB says anything that can move while firing heavy weapons or counts as stationary for RF can assault after firing.

p25 of the SM codex says that due to their powerful exoskeleton termies can move while firing heavy weapon (first paragraph in TDA description). So you can fire a heavy weapon and charge

However, nothing says Loyalist Terminators count as stationary when firing RF weapons (nothing I can find at least)...so you can;t fire a RF weapon and charge. so if that captain fires his combi-plasgun, he denies the unit their charge, meanwhile the assault cannon guy can wail away with it while he runs into combat.
 

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That is just what I was about to add. To summarize: Termies, according to the dex, can move and fire heavy weapons. The BBB says that all models that can move + fire heavy weapons can also move, fire, and assault. ;)
 

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But you;re fucked if you have a combi-weapon
 

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Discussion Starter #19
p36 of ythe BBB says anything that can move while firing heavy weapons or counts as stationary for RF can assault after firing.

p25 of the SM codex says that due to their powerful exoskeleton termies can move while firing heavy weapon (first paragraph in TDA description). So you can fire a heavy weapon and charge

However, nothing says Loyalist Terminators count as stationary when firing RF weapons (nothing I can find at least)...so you can;t fire a RF weapon and charge. so if that captain fires his combi-plasgun, he denies the unit their charge, meanwhile the assault cannon guy can wail away with it while he runs into combat.

Thank you!! Galahad to save the day again. Im a stickler for the rules and if I know a rule I will play by it. I just bought my first squad of regular termies the other day and then this kinda got thrown up in my face and I was about to be so pissed that I couldnt use my Termies the way I thought I could. Even if everyone knew that Termies are supposed to be "stable platforms" I wasnt going to use them that way as that wasnt in the rules. But thanks to this I can use them again!! I really dont care about combi weapons and personally never use them. So thanks again!!:victory:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ah! But another little hole in the rules appears before me.. No Terminator (Chaos or Imperial) count as stationary for firing rapid fire weapons so no more Chaos Terminators moving and shooting 24"... they can only shoot the 2 shots at 12" now.

Page 86 of the chaos codex definately cleared up that they can assualt but nothing for them to count as stationary. So I guess the only units which count as stationary for RF purposes are Tau suits and slow 'n purposefull units now (i dont know any others..).
 
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